Policing the industry

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480sparky

480sparky

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Location
Iowegia
mivey said:
............As for links: What are the issues with union topics that causes some threads to get closed? I haven't paid a whole lot of attention to it, but can someone help me find a link showing the forum policy violations concerning unions that should be avoided?
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Does this trip your trigger?
 
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nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
ericsherman37 said:
I'm an IBEW member but I'm not going to call the hall for some help when I rewire something at my own house. My wife's pretty good at helping me fish wires down the wall.
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I agree, I am union man myself (not electrical related) Union employees should be doing union work. You are not supposed to get a side job and take work away from others, in your trade or others.

However, that does not apply to your home. If, you are buying houses, renovating and renting them, you still own them in your name, that's technically not a side job and I have no problem with that.

Doing so without permits is another issue, I am not addressing here.
 
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nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
KevinVost said:
Our AHJ has established an enforcement division. They investigate any complaints made about work with out permits. Our field inspectors have been instructed to stop at any site, any time, to check permits (an inspection request is not needed to have the inspector stop, since most inspectors have an area they inspect and are fimiliar with, most know the new jobs and will check up on the job once they see work going on). To that end, our administrative code was written with a section called "Right of Entry", which allows inspectors to enter any property, anytime, to perform thier job, or to investigate complaints or unsafe conditions (if they are visable from public view) which is the cause to enter.
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I would like to follow up on this, after rereading it, it makes me SICK to think that someone thought this would be reasonable and constitutional.

(Kevin, unless you wrote this code, I am not directing my opinion at you)

The city/town/county lawyers either never read this or are stupid.

Most cities around here have a full legal department and they run this stuff by them first. Unless it was a town warrant/citizen petition, it which case the citizens are stupid, and I leave it at that.
 
Rockyd

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
I'm IBEW, and would hate to see someone raising issues with me for bettering the community, because I can work on my own stuff, providing I'm with in the law.

If the person is that upset, perhaps he can PM me, and I will be happy to let him know where the bear goes in the woods.

I would hate to see the thread closed for a topic that should be out in the open.
 
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wawireguy

Senior Member
I'd stop short at educating the homeowner about at least pulling a permit themselves and having it inspected. If there's ever a fire and no inspection was done it could go poorly for the homeowner. My next question would be do you police your fellow EC's? I have to be honest I'm more concerned with the state of the lack of quality in contractors work than I am with some handyman wiring something up. I think the homeowner is doing themselves a disservice by hiring a non-professional to do a electrical install but it's their castle..
 
Rockyd

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
Agree with that! Contractors should fire hacks! When you hire as a journeyman, you are already making the claim that you know how to do the work, otherwise your just hiring on as a helper. There is a reason one should "let the ink dry on their ticket", for a couple of years before they move into foreman, and supervision jobs. One-day journeyman, turning out to run work the next day normally only works where they do mass reptition (install).
 
mivey

mivey

Senior Member
480sparky said:
Does this trip your trigger?
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Doesn't look so complicated. I guess I was reading too much into some of the comments I see from time to time.

I guess the question is: As a union member, is there a code of conduct you have agreed to follow that would preclude the kind of work in post #29?

In particular, this question:
infinity said:
What does the fact that he's ibew have to do with it?
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should have an answer. Most organizations have a code of conduct or something that its members agree to abide by. If the union is trying to hold its members to a higher standard, then an IBEW member working without permits, etc, would be worse than a non-union guy, because he has also adding breaking his IBEW oath to his list of bad behavior.
 
ibew441dc

ibew441dc

Senior Member
MrMilbank said:
he doesnt have a license, hes a union electrician working outside of the union. its just wrong.
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You, or anyone who is not in the IBEW, has no say in what is right or wrong for our members to do. You can voice your opinion, but it means nothing.:smile:

I'll stick to my original statement

"NOBODY that throws on tools and is required to abide by the law is exempt."
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
K8MHZ said:
Or not.

You be the judge. I watched as city ordered demolition crews tore down this house belonging to an 89 year old man.

http://blog.mlive.com/chronicle/2008/06/filling_a_void.html#more
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If there was a court order that is different.
My point was that in the absence of a permit (the permit gives the inspector the right of entry without an warrant) an inspector cannot come onto the property if the owner/occupant says he can't...unless the inspector has a warrant.
 
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zbang

Senior Member
Location
Roughly 5346 miles from Earls Court
I think y'all are missing the point. Just someone owning a house doesn't make him the homeowner unless he actually lives there (or is planning to). If he's rehab-ing it to rent, it's not his home, especially if he's obviously living elsewhere.

Either way, ya still need the permits, and probably the license.
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
zbang said:
I think y'all are missing the point. Just someone owning a house doesn't make him the homeowner unless he actually lives there (or is planning to). If he's rehab-ing it to rent, it's not his home, especially if he's obviously living elsewhere.

Either way, ya still need the permits, and probably the license.
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Exactly. In Iowa, you must have filed for a Homestead exemption in order to consider it your home. And you can only have one exemption. And you must live there a year to get it.
 
K8MHZ

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
In rural / small town Michigan, if your pipe run looks like jewelry, the inspector seldom, if ever, looks at anything else. They are just happy to have a good job done so they don't have to get into a confrontation with a hack which many times turns ugly.

In Michigan cities, however, the rules are much more strict.

State laws have become stricter too. No more 'helpers' allowed. All electrical workers must either be apprenti, journey folk or masters with a state issued card to prove it. Apprenti must be enrolled in a state approved school. J-men to apprenti ratios are now being enforced. No more jobs with 15 apprenti and 1 journeyman.

Home Depot has upped it's standards as well, requiring the manager of the electrical dept. to be a master electrician. Our local HD has a great one, Larry, a former inspector who still teaches code class. Because of Larry I spend a lot of money at HD. Very seldom do I go there and my usual chat with Larry fails to teach me something. I have tried my best to get his goat and so far, no go(at). :grin:
 
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