Pool Bonding

What in the world ? Are you speaking for Mike Holt when you say that as an Employee of Mike's site?
680.26 covers pool pump motors under water lighting etc, all kinds of things would be likely to energize a pool grid, its DIY misinformation to say those would not be likely to become energized.
We do not agree as to the purpose of the pool bonding grid. The grid does its job even if it is energized to 120 volts as Mike showed in one of his videos.

No one ever speaks for Mike Holt other than Mike Holt himself...not even the employees of Mike Holt Enterprises speak for Mike, and as Jim said there are no Mike Holt Enterprise employees that moderate this forum. The only involvement of Mike Holt Enterprises with this forum is the back of the house stuff in running the servers and the software.
 
Its purpose is clear we agree on that, its as soon as you create one its 'likely to become energized' by any number of components.
 
Its purpose is clear we agree on that, its as soon as you create one its 'likely to become energized' by any number of components.
Fault clearing is simply not the purpose of equipotential bonding. The problem with thinking it is is the fact that the culprit may not be caused by the electrical source of the pool, it can be from the utility or the neighbor, but if everything is energized to the same potential there is no problem
 
Fault clearing is simply not the purpose of equipotential bonding. The problem with thinking it is is the fact that the culprit may not be caused by the electrical source of the pool, it can be from the utility or the neighbor, but if everything is energized to the same potential there is no problem
I agree its not the purpose 100% with you there and its very existence, regardless or purpose, makes it likely to become energized.
As @Deltaforce and others have mentioned out its still covered under 250.4(A)(5)
 
See this article by Kieth Lofland

Here is an excerpt, notice the last four words in the last sentence

The bonding connection between the various components of the equipotential bonding grid can be made with a series of solid copper conductor(s) or with rigid metal conduit of brass or other identified corrosion-resistant metal. If a conductor is used, it may be insulated, covered, or bare, but cannot be smaller than 8 AWG. This bonding conductor is not required to be extended or attached to remote panelboards, service equipment, or any grounding electrodes. This bonding conductor is, again, simply for bonding of metal components together, it is not intended for establishing a connection to earth or a ground-fault return path.
 
I agree its not the purpose 100% with you there and its very existence, regardless or purpose, makes it likely to become energized.
As @Deltaforce and others have mentioned out its still covered under 250.4(A)(5)
I am never going to agree that the pool bonding is covered by 250.4(A)(5). So there is no more need for me to comment on this thread.
 
See this article by Kieth Lofland

Here is an excerpt, notice the last four words in the last sentence
Thats a great article, and I appreciate you, Mike and everyone sharing these resources on pools on this site, I have wired many in ground pools and have benefited greatly from Mikes seminars.
Like the article describes there are various pieces of electrical equipment connected to the grid:
1759629904605.png
As I said the purpose of the equipotential grid is clear, and we agree on it, however its purpose is about as relevant to 250.4(A)(5) as the purpose of the metal frame on any old piece of equipment.
All 250.4(A)(5) is concerned with is >if its likely to become energized< this diagram in the article you shared, shows many electrical devices that has EGC's that also connect to that grid,
and since they do, a failure in any of those devices or any of those ECG's could energize the grid,
and if that was not enough just having two ECG's touching the grid from possibly different panels may be likely to energize the grid,
any fault in any device will partially flow on the grid (KCL or kirchhoff's law),
there are several more ways grid is 'likely to be energized' ..
We've all seen a loose or broken wire, ground loops you name it, were all electricians here.
I have seen similar bs arguments around other equipment in the healthcare industry but I digress.
 
Thats a great article, and I appreciate you, Mike and everyone sharing these resources on pools on this site, I have wired many in ground pools and have benefited greatly from Mikes seminars.
Like the article describes there are various pieces of electrical equipment connected to the grid:
View attachment 2579915
As I said the purpose of the equipotential grid is clear, and we agree on it, however its purpose is about as relevant to 250.4(A)(5) as the purpose of the metal frame on any old piece of equipment.
All 250.4(A)(5) is concerned with is >if its likely to become energized< this diagram in the article you shared, shows many electrical devices that has EGC's that also connect to that grid,
and since they do, a failure in any of those devices or any of those ECG's could energize the grid,
and if that was not enough just having two ECG's touching the grid from possibly different panels may be likely to energize the grid,
any fault in any device will partially flow on the grid (KCL or kirchhoff's law),
there are several more ways grid is 'likely to be energized' ..
We've all seen a loose or broken wire, ground loops you name it, were all electricians here.
I have seen similar bs arguments around other equipment in the healthcare industry but I digress.
Yes, if egc connection loose in wet luminaire on ground fault, fault current also flow through bonding grid, but the bonding grid still connected to egc through other components, the low resistance/impedance of bonding grid still ensure effective ground fault path
 
We do not agree as to the purpose of the pool bonding grid. The grid does its job even if it is energized to 120 volts as Mike showed
The issue for pool energized 120v and grid do its job, the high fault current may comprromise grid integrity if not removed fast
 
Yes, if egc connection loose in wet luminaire on ground fault, fault current also flow through bonding grid, but the bonding grid still connected to egc through other components, the low resistance/impedance of bonding grid still ensure effective ground fault path
Anything the pool bonding grid has to do with a fault clearing path is incidental. It's purpose is to make sure that if the pool is energized from any source that no shock hazard exists to anyone in the water, even if the fault never clears.
 
Anything the pool bonding grid has to do with a fault clearing path is incidental. It's purpose is to make sure that if the pool is energized from any source that no shock hazard exists to anyone in the water, even if the fault never clears.
Your reply to this?:
The issue for pool energized 120v and grid do its job, the high fault current may comprromise grid integrity if not removed fast
 
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