Positioning of 2 pole breaker in an old GE panel

[Zee]

This question is for those that are familiar with the old school GE bus bar configuration.
I need to get a 2 pole breaker in here. For a 240 VAC feed to a sub panel.
The label diagram specifies only a couple spots available for 2 pole breakers in the panel. (see pic)
These are in the top half. (see pic)
These spots are all taken by the reduced size 2p20 and 2p40, and full sized main 2p100.

Everywhere else I do know that a reduced size 2 pole breaker will not physically go there (at least not across the two stabs to gain 240 VAC.)
I am wondering if a full sized 2 pole 60A breaker would be rejected by the plastic or metal rejection tabs if I replaced the 4 @ 30A breakers in the lower right?


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[LarryFine]

A full-sized GE breaker has cut-outs to fit over the half-sized bus tabs.

If the sub-panel will be close by, use the main-lug terminals to feed it.

If you can get a main-breaker kit for it, it would open two full spaces.

 

[Little Bill]

A full-sized GE breaker has cut-outs to fit over the half-sized bus tabs.

If the sub-panel will be close by, use the main-lug terminals to feed it.

If you can get a main-breaker kit for it, it would open two full spaces.

Are you saying to use the tap rules?

 

[LarryFine]

Are you saying to use the tap rules?

Yes, if he doesn't want to install a 100a feeder, and it should have a main breaker.

And I meant a main-breaker kit for the existing panel; there is a twist-out for it.

 

[norcal]

That Siemens breaker is not UL classified for GE panels, & if a NOS, New Old Stock, main breaker kit could be found, there would be a instant 2 pole spot open where the main used to be.

 

[herding_cats]

This is an interesting post because I have some similar situations. The comment on feeding off main lugs to a sub is curious and I can’t find anything that says you can’t do this. You are just creating a “feed through” panel. Or modifying the main lugs to accept another set of service wires.

 

[curt swartz]

What are the 2p 30's feeding? Both poles are on the same leg.

 

[letgomywago]

What are the 2p 30's feeding? Both poles are on the same leg.

Probably homemade quad

 

[busman]

Wondering if that 100A main is bolted in?

Mark

 

[ptonsparky]

Wondering if that 100A main is bolted in?

Mark

Probably not.

 

[Zee]

What are the 2p 30's feeding? Both poles are on the same leg.

They used one 2p30A breaker for black and the other for red..........side by side to make a 30A 240V circuit to dryer ..............What curt swartz said: a "home made quad".
Problem is i wanted to put my 2pole20A 240V breaker there and it won't go unless I wire it similarly across 2 separate breakers. .......and inspector doesn't like it. Understandable.

 

[Zee]

Thanks for the great answers. Many I did not expect at all.
Good ideas.

See guts of MSP below.
Do you still think a main breaker kit is possible?
Right now I prefer that option as that (E) backfed main 2p100A is hogging not 1, but 2, 2pole spots for breakers.
.....and i won't have to explain using the main feed lugs as a tap or feed thru to a (N) sub.....

 

[Zee]

Wondering if that 100A main is bolted in?

Mark

No it is not bolted.

 

[Zee]

A full-sized GE breaker has cut-outs to fit over the half-sized bus tabs.

Thank you for the ideas.

I want to clarify: are you saying a full 2p brkr will work in the bottom half of bus bar (in place of the 4 @ small 30A handles) even though the diagram does not show any handle tie options there?
I.e. a full 2pole brkr works - but not a reduced size 2pole brkr?

 

[LarryFine]

Thank you for the ideas.

I want to clarify: are you saying a full 2p brkr will work in the bottom half of bus bar (in place of the 4 @ small 30A handles) even though the diagram does not show any handle tie options there?
I.e. a full 2pole brkr works - but not a reduced size 2pole brkr?

That's what I'm saying. A full-sized 2p breaker will fit anywhere two full-sized 1p breakers will.

 

[LarryFine]

A full-sized GE breaker has cut-outs to fit over the half-sized bus tabs.

I found some pics that show this. Note the little cross-bars on the bus stabs.



Half-sized breakers have clips for those cross-bars, and 2p a gap for the separator between spaces.

The full-sized breakers contact the buses normally, and have notches for those cross-bars to fit into.

 

[mtnelect]

Not your original question, but in California they are now enforcing MBC requiring handle ties.

 

[Zee]

That's what I'm saying. A full-sized 2p breaker will fit anywhere two full-sized 1p breakers will.

Great help and info, thank you.

I will be ordering the main brkr kit.
That way I can fix the funky 30A dryer circuit and add my 240V circuit.
Look what I found: (chart with master main kit serial no.s)

 

[LarryFine]

Almost like we know what we're talking about sometimes, eh?

 

[Zee]