Power Bridge

[LarryFine]

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=0734469&ucst=t

http://www.growtron.com/Hubbell-Bryant/tvss/Product Datasheet -- HBL3W100.htm

Okay, let's run with that.

Where and how can I compliantly mount and wire either of those for point-of-use (not at the panel) protection?

While we're at it, do they offer connected-equipment warranties for consumer electronics like plug-in ones do?

 

[mivey]

Justin,
No ?/? to open the quote.

 

[iwire]

Where and how can I compliantly mount and wire either of those for point-of-use (not at the panel) protection?

I am not sure why that is needed but you can't seriously tell me you could not figure out a way to wire a hard wired device.

While we're at it, do they offer connected-equipment warranties for consumer electronics like plug-in ones do?

I have no idea.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Originally Posted by iwire
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...0734469&ucst=t

http://www.growtron.com/Hubbell-Brya...20HBL3W100.htm

Okay, let's run with that.

The Hubble product in the Fastenal link states no mention of residential use:

Industrial, medical or commercial applications

 

[LarryFine]

I am not sure why that is needed but you can't seriously tell me you could not figure out a way to wire a hard wired device.

Of course, I could, but it has to be acceptable to the customer, who may not have a place in the living room for an enclosure.

In my HT closet, it wouldn't be a problem. I'd like to find a 50a or 60a, 120/240v device with series filtering for my sub-panel.

 

[wwhitney]

While a specific attachment plug / receptacle may be designated by Code as a disconnecting means, the Code stops short of saying ALL attachment plugs / receptacles are controllers, in fact, I don't think there's a single instance in the Code that an attachment plug / receptacle is stated to control, or is used for controlling . . . unlike 404.14 where snap switches are used for controlling . . .

With respect to the Article 100 definition of Controller, what is the difference between flipping a switch, and inserting or removing a female cord cap from an inlet? Or consider a pull-out disconnect, which is a controller. What is the difference between inserting and removing the pull-out and inserting and removing a cord cap from an inlet?

Wayne

 

[mivey]

Behind the TV? How would the rest of the system get on the same power cleaner?

Why does it have to be on the same power cleaner? I understand the desire to have it on the same circuit.

 

[al hildenbrand]

What is the difference between inserting and removing the pull-out and inserting and removing a cord cap from an inlet?

Depending upon the specific manufacturer's listing for the pull out, one will probably find it listed as a switch. A switch is a controller.

The Code is silent about using a cord connector and inlet as a switch, or anything else close to a "controller". Look for yourself. Way back at Post 119 I listed almost every reference in the Code for Flanged Surface Inlet. click here for #119

Now, my "maker" self can look at a cord connector and inlet and see that I can control the flow of power to whatever it is supplying, but that "common sense" ain't gotta dog in this NEC hunt.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I'm not aware. Can you provide an example and what Code reference will allow this differently than what is being discussed?

Thanks Don!

The only one I have used is a Meltric and they are not suitable for your application because of size and cost, but you can connect flexible conduit to them. Note there are some strict limits on the use of unsupported flexible conduit.

As far as using an inlet with a cord to supply power to the inlet, the only application that I would find acceptable would be an Article 702 installation or a power supply to a portable appliance or other portable equipment. I would never accept the installation as used for your product...that is without a FI or panel statement that says the installation is acceptable.

 

[mivey]

I cannot find referrence to the use of an inlet, specfic to "temporary" manor. Same for the cord. Where does the word "temporary" become descriptive use ONLY for these devices?
...The cord has been cited at to allowance of intended use: 400.7 (10) is a prime allowance.

How about:
Flexible cord is not listed as an approved wiring method but there are specific exceptions where is is allowed under certain conditions.

The place where it does allow them to serve as branch circuit conductors in general is in the temporary wiring section of the code. Thus the designation of extension cords as temporary.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Why does it have to be on the same power cleaner?

In a transient condition, having all of the associated electronic boxes, interconnected with various signal and power cables, experiencing the same "scrubbing" of the transient laced power helps to minimize pass thru from component to component.

 

[wwhitney]

Depending upon the specific manufacturer's listing for the pull out, one will probably find it listed as a switch. A switch is a controller.

The Code is silent about using a cord connector and inlet as a switch, or anything else close to a "controller". Look for yourself.

You missed the most important part of my question: "with respect to the Article 100 definition of Controller". Under that definition, what is the difference between inserting and removing a pullout from a pullout disconnect and inserting and removing a cord connector from an inlet?

Thanks,
Wayne

 

[mivey]

210.50(B) doesn't say where the receptacle outlet has to be.

It says where used. The cord from the appliance is used along its length and at its ends. Yeah you could say the cord is being used in a room, or in a house, or in a city, or in a state, etc but the use is taking place at the cord, not at a device located upline at some connection far, far, away.

If you have Phillips head screws and you are told to use a Phillips screwdriver, the use is expected to take place at the screw-head, not across the room.

Having a cord with prongs on the end, then requiring a receptacle with matching prongs would indicate that they are meant to be in intimate contact, not just located within a bow-shot of each other.

Make sense?

 

[mivey]

In a transient condition, having all of the associated electronic boxes, interconnected with various signal and power cables, experiencing the same "scrubbing" of the transient laced power helps to minimize pass thru from component to component.

That may be desirable, but I doubt it is a requirement for all but the most sensitive of setups. If they were that susceptible, data centers all over the world are in trouble as they have had separate equipment on separate conditioners running fine for as long as I have been in the business.

I doubt the equipment in our homes is near that critical. I have had inter-linked equipment in my house for years and been hit with various surges and never had an issue with them being on separate conditioners.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Under that definition, what is the difference between inserting and removing a pullout from a pullout disconnect and inserting and removing a cord connector from an inlet?

110.3(B)

Show that the cord connector / inlet has an interrupting rating. Being from different manufacturers (most likely) they will never be tested for how they operate together, unlike the single unit pull out disconnect.

 

[al hildenbrand]

That may be desirable, but I doubt it is a requirement for all but the most sensitive of setups.

Larry's not saying it is a requirement.

What one values get's the greatest protection.

Mine would be protecting the microwave controller 'cause I value my morning coffee. Other's may value the gaming / DVR / display / sound system with its web of interconnections.

 

[PowerBridgeTech]

Back to our regular programming

Back to our regular programming

I have to applaud all here as to the professional conduct you have shown me while being gracious, tolerant, and thoughful to your acceptance of someone like me, representing a manufacture.
I hope I've extended half as much courtesy to you as you have shown me.

With that said, the respect you all have to assist the OP, (who was not me), since has not offered any further comment. His question originates to the use allowable of this type of "kit" installation, specifically the use of a flexible cord, citing 400.8(1) as Substitute of a structures wiring.

We have thusfar addressed many opinions as to the cord, the inlet, controllers, ect and the applied wiring methods. It has bounced around a lot and perhaps losing its track.
If I may, inquire a set of questions in succession to assist with a clearer view of possible applications of the NEC of this type of installation.

Moderators: If this is not allowable, please advise and remove.

By method of installation:
Connection, by acceptable methods to meet Code and AHJ requirements, with NM or MC wire/cable; one (1) listed device (5-15R) outlet receptacle, directly to one (1) listed device (5-15P) inlet together by means of connection to the conductors of each device.
Both above devices shall be installed in respective junction boxes within the structures walls or ceilings.
Both ends shall be DEAD-FRONT, No wired connection shall exist to or from the Premise Wiring Circuit or Service Panel.
QUESTIONS:
Is this as cited by Definition:
Branch Circuit?
Branch Circuit Extension?
Branch Circuit, Appliance?
Branch Circuit, General Purpose?
Branch Circuit Individual?
Something else?
NONE:
Permitted as cited: Y N
Is this assembly, "part of" the structure?

 

[mivey]

...
QUESTIONS:
Is this as cited by Definition:
Branch Circuit?
Branch Circuit Extension?
Branch Circuit, Appliance?
Branch Circuit, General Purpose?
Branch Circuit Individual?
Something else?
NONE:
Permitted as cited: Y N
Is this assembly, "part of" the structure?

If energized using accepted wiring methods, this is part of a branch circuit as it is in the path between the utilization outlet and the branch overcurrent protection.

add: Assume no lights on the source circuit so we can call it part of an Appliance Branch Circuit.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Make sense?

Sure. I understand your opinion.

I don't agree with it.

 

[al hildenbrand]

If you have Phillips head screws and you are told to use a Phillips screwdriver, the use is expected to take place at the screw-head, not across the room.

Sure ya can. Just put an extension on the driver.