Power Company Damage Dispute

[Ravenvalor]

A customer had a 13k volt primary line fall in her yard Thursday night. It caught the yard on fire and also energized the CATV line, frying all of the electronics in the home. The power company rep claimed that a small branch (1/2" - 3/4" in diameter) fell on the line burning the 13k volt line in half. Is it just me or does anyone else have trouble accepting this theory?

Thank you,

 

[Mule]

haha that's funny.....it's the world we live in, NOBODY accepts responsibilty

 

[CONTROL FREQ]

A customer had a 13k volt primary line fall in her yard Thursday night. It caught the yard on fire and also energized the CATV line, frying all of the electronics in the home. The power company rep claimed that a small branch (1/2" - 3/4" in diameter) fell on the line burning the 13k volt line in half. Is it just me or does anyone else have trouble accepting this theory?

Thank you,

That sounds like a load of crap. The line broke, pulled loose, etc. and possibly ended up arcing in half. Bottom line: trees fall on power lines, power lines come down... The CATV shield should've been isolated through an isolation device and also should've been attached to a grounding block, then to the equipment grounding terminal of the service. The power co. will claim it was an act of nature/God. The customer will not have a chance... The customer will have to eat all these expenses, and make sure next time, the equipment is properly installed. Sad as it is... it almost always ends up that way. satelite and cable companies know the RIGHT way, but their subs, usually cut corners...

 

[Ravenvalor]

That sounds like a load of crap. The line broke, pulled loose, etc. and possibly ended up arcing in half. Bottom line: trees fall on power lines, power lines come down... The CATV shield should've been isolated through an isolation device and also should've been attached to a grounding block, then to the equipment grounding terminal of the service. The power co. will claim it was an act of nature/God. The customer will not have a chance... The customer will have to eat all these expenses, and make sure next time, the equipment is properly installed. Sad as it is... it almost always ends up that way. satelite and cable companies know the RIGHT way, but their subs, usually cut corners...

That is exactly what they are saying. 1/2" branch cut 13kvolt primary line in half.

 

[CONTROL FREQ]

The only chance your customer has (IMO) is this: if an improper CATV installation condition exists (and probably does) then the cable company/installer may be found liable for damages if YOU prove it for your customer. I’ve said it before, I’m no “code junkie”, just so happens I’ve been studying this particular subject lately.

Here is what you need to look for:

820.100

The CATV grounding conductor must terminate to the intersystem bonding terminal OR nearest accessible:

1. Grounding electrode system (250.50).
2. Interior metal piping within 5’ (250.52).
3. Accessible bonding means (250.94).
4. Metal service raceway.
5. Service equipment enclosure.
6. Grounding electrode conductor or metal enclosure enclosing grounding electrode conductor.

Hope this helps you my friend,
Mike

 

[Open Neutral]

The victim must:


1) File a PSC complaint. PoCo's hate that, except for PEPCO here....who don't seem to care..

2) talk with their insurance carrier. And by the way, any electronics that is allegedly OK may suffer from early mortality.

 

[Volta]

I don't know, she might have a chance. When there is a simple overvoltage, maybe not, but this is clearly different.

If the line fell in the yard and a person there was hurt, I'm sure that the POCO could be found at least partially liable. No matter what the POCO has written as disclaimers, they have no right to damage others' properties, and this seems likely to have nothing to do directly with the service/account to your customer's house.

 

[Jraef]

That is exactly what they are saying. 1/2" branch cut 13kvolt primary line in half.

Not necessarily. A branch that was long enough could have landed ACROSS two lines or line to a grounded pole or something and under the right (wrong) circumstances provided a path to start an arc, which melted the carrier cable. It only takes a second and if the carrier cable fails, the weight of the copper line alone is enough to snap it. Happens quite a bit out in the forest, that's why you see them cut wide swaths of forest down around HT lines. That's also why PoCos insist that people trim their trees and keep them healthy.

I have some HT lines behind my house and an old RR right-of-way which has become a bike / hike trail that is part of the Park District now. In other parts of the trail there are trees and shady areas, but here behind me where they share the power line right-of-way, nothing and it gets really hot back there. People complain over and over to the park district about planting trees here, but the PoCo trumps them.

My experience on things like this is that the PoCo will claim the act of God issue and it's over before it starts. If the claim were small they might have done it to avoid the nuisance, but in claiming a bigger amount it becomes worth it for them to get their lawyers involved. If your customer talks to them and asks if there is a reasonable amount they will cover, she might be surprised and get something. But if she tries to get everything paid for, they'll sick the lawyer dogs on it to shut it down immediately, they don't like to set precedents.

 

[Ravenvalor]

Can anybody give me some advice on megging this home? Megging it out right now and have questions. Please call 336-263-3716. Thank you.

 

[RCinFL]

A half inch branch would be vaporized before any damage to the poco cable or cable support structure.

 

[Hv&Lv]

A half inch branch would be vaporized before any damage to the poco cable or cable support structure.

After being in the POCO business for over 20 years, I can say with some certaintity, No it wouldn't.

 

[Ravenvalor]

Yesterday I spent the day megging the wiring in the home. Luckily I was able to borrow a Fluke 1520 from a local used equipment supply company who by the way did not know diddly about megging homes. Not a problem thanks to the manufacturers website, youtube videos, this forum and most importantly a timely call from Volta here on this thread with some valuable input.

I went under the home and found the waterline leaking. customer calls the plumber and he finds that the cold water bond clamp the CATV company used to bond their service to the building ground had burned some holes into the copper waterline when the surge hit. It also burnt the CATV bonding conductor in two at the clamp, you can still see the piece of the conductor underneath the clamp. The clamp was not tight onto the pipe when I first discovered it. I am not sure if this is due to sloppy work on the installers part or the result of the surge damaging the pipe.

Thanks for all of the help with this one.

 

[Volta]

That sure makes for a long day! Did the light and power conductors all check out well enough?

 

[Ravenvalor]

That sure makes for a long day! Did the light and power conductors all check out well enough?

Actually a couple of circuits were quite low, after tracking them down I found a bad receptacle (very low resistance), a bad piece of 14-3nmc cable in the crawlspace with poor stapling (very low resistance, sounds like what you explained to me yesterday) and a bad uf cable going to the post light (very low resistance also). I do not know if these problems were caused by the surge or not though I probably never will.

Thank you for the help.

 

[Open Neutral]

I do not know if these problems were caused by the surge or not though I probably never will.

Those are exactly the kind of things I would expect to succumb to a large overvoltage. The gotchas may be any surviving electronics that "are fine" except they fail in a few months. Ditto freezer/hvac/etc. How about stove clocks, fridge defrost cycle timers....

I'm really paranoid about good grounds; the Poco wants one rod, I want three with cadwelds, etc. But I don't know if they could have saved things in this case.

 

[petersonra]

Chances are this really was an "act of god" type event. This kind of thing happens. It is not really anyone's fault.

Let the home owner's insurance carrier fight with the POCO over who pays, unless the amount is too low to worry about.

No amount of grounding would have changed what happened here, nor is it likely that whether the CATV cable was properly or improperly grounded have made any real difference. A 13kV fault to anything in the house is going to damage stuff. It is not much different than a lightening strike. There is going to be damage, and there is not anything that you can do to prevent it.

 

[ggunn]

Not necessarily. A branch that was long enough could have landed ACROSS two lines or line to a grounded pole or something and under the right (wrong) circumstances provided a path to start an arc, which melted the carrier cable. It only takes a second and if the carrier cable fails, the weight of the copper line alone is enough to snap it. Happens quite a bit out in the forest, that's why you see them cut wide swaths of forest down around HT lines. That's also why PoCos insist that people trim their trees and keep them healthy.

If the branch was still connected to the tree when it touched the wire, might it have been a good enough ground connection to burn the wire?

 

[weressl]

A customer had a 13k volt primary line fall in her yard Thursday night. It caught the yard on fire and also energized the CATV line, frying all of the electronics in the home. The power company rep claimed that a small branch (1/2" - 3/4" in diameter) fell on the line burning the 13k volt line in half. Is it just me or does anyone else have trouble accepting this theory?

Thank you,

Even if that is the case, it is the Utility Company's responsibility to keep their lines clear of falling branches and they have extebnsive crews doing just that.

 

[ggunn]

The "act of God" loophole has always amused me. God decided to set your backyard on fire and blow up your appliances. Really?

 

[Fulthrotl]

If the branch was still connected to the tree when it touched the wire, might it have been a good enough ground connection to burn the wire?

we can all speculate from two time zones away, and anything is possible...
i suppose.... but to answer your question, i think no.

in my opinion, of course.

what'll part the cable is a corona arc that vaporizes the conductor, or heats it
enough that the metal becomes plastic.. that half inch branch i'm thinking will
smoke a lot faster than a 3/0 aluminum cable, or whatever was used.

final score, metal bar, 1.... stick, 0.