ppe question?

[marissa2]

don
Thanks, I don't remember all the equipment in the set but it also had a head sock that is required for 480 voltsand some other items.
Lou

 

[zog]

zog
It was a complete set-up with carring bag. If you can get for less let the rest of know so we can save some money.
Lou

HRC2 kit, hard hat, facesheild, head sock, 8 cal coveralls, and safety glasses. With carry bag, about $240.

Try Reed city power line supply.

 

[zog]

Very well said Pierre, I could not agree more.

I would bet it is a very small percentage of ECs that have any safety program at all. For the most part the attitude is "Of course I can work with live wires, I am an electrician" That was how I was taught from day one, and that was how my teacher was taught. I was bolting breakers in hot by a few months in, as far as I was concerned it was no big deal and just part of the job.

I was in the trade about 15 years before I had a real safety class, or heard the term 'PPE'. It's just has not been part of a typical residential or commercial electricians training in this area.

Sorry to hear that, no wonder there are so many injuries in this trade. Dont all electricians have to go through some training or apprenticeship? How is basic electrical safety not covered?

I dont mean to offend, but I am amazed that am electician dosent know what PPE is.

 

[zog]

I teach a lot of people during the year, contractors included. We are just north of NYC and in one of the most populated areas of the Nation.
Yet, there are still many Contractors/journeymen who are not aware of the OSHA rules or what PPE stands for.
Zog, it may be an every day part of your working life, but 95% of the electrical people I deal with in this area barely wear work boots, let alone understand PPE requirements.
Instead of getting upset, help.

So 95% of electricians are not Qualified (Per NFPA 70E)? Thats scary.

 

[zog]

don
Thanks, I don't remember all the equipment in the set but it also had a head sock that is required for 480 voltsand some other items.
Lou

Marissa, voltage has nothing to do with the arc flash PPE required, in fact in a typical power system the 480V equipment has much greater arc flash hazards than the 13,800V equipment.

The NFPA 70E is readily available and a short read, if I were you I would recommend to your company to get some 70E training. They should have done this before issuing any PPE, you arent qualified to wear the PPE if you havent been properly trained.

 

[iwire]

Sorry to hear that, no wonder there are so many injuries in this trade.

How do our injury rates compare to other construction trades?

Dont all electricians have to go through some training or apprenticeship?

No, licensing is strictly up to each state.

I happen to live in an area with state licensing, I did go to state approved trade school and at that time (1980-82) we worked hot in trade school. We worked with 120 volts daily. The only nod to safety was a current limiter (A bunch of high wattage lamps in series with the supply)

One day we made a Jacobs ladder out of a neon sign transformer and two metal stools placed on the wood bench. It was great fun, it was even better when the class clown stuck his foot in between and we got to see an arc jump into his toe and out his heel.

How is basic electrical safety not covered?

It was not then, it may well be now I have no idea.

I don't mean to offend, but I am amazed that am electrician doesn't know what PPE is.

I don't mean to offend either but IMO you have no idea how it has been and to a large extent still is in the construction side of the trade. At least not residential and commercial.

 

[brian john]

The fact is the title 'electrician' does not mean someone is qualified for any electrical task. Being legally allowed to do electrical work and being qualified are two different issues

Based upon my expierence very few electricians are qualified to work on or around power systems that are energized with any kind of operational issues.

I have stated this before, but the injuries I have seen due to a lack of knowledge of safe working practices is more than upsetting.

 

[peter d]

I have stated this before, but the injuries I have seen due to a lack of knowledge of safe working practices is more than upsetting.

You're not alone in that. It always bothers me to hear about an electrician who was killed or injured doing some mundane task that more than likely could have been done with the power shut off.

 

[JohnJ0906]

I was in the trade about 15 years before I had a real safety class, or heard the term 'PPE'. It's just has not been part of a typical residential or commercial electricians training in this area.

The same here.
I have learned more about safety here on this forum than in 18 years in the field.
I never heard the term "PPE" until I came here either.

 

[zog]

How do our injury rates compare to other construction trades?

OSHA publishes injury rates about 3 years after the fact, problem is that electricial injuries to electricians are broken up into 3 fifferent catagories, commercial, construction, utility. If you add them up Electrican ends up being the 3rd most dangerous job to have in the USA. After commercial fisherman and cop.

I don't mean to offend either but IMO you have no idea how it has been and to a large extent still is in the construction side of the trade. At least not residential and commercial.

Well I have trained many large EC's on 70E, they seemed to have some basic safety knowledge, used rubber gloves, used the right meters, LOTO, etc. But they were all big EC's, few hundred guys, safey department, etc. They didnt know much about 70E but most people dont.

I suppose if you worked for a very small EC or were on your own you wouldnt know any of this stuff about safety, and you are right, I dont have any exposure to these guys outside of this forum, the projects I work on involve the moster sized EC's, not the small shops.

There really should be a law about safety training requirements to get your license, it would save lives.

 

[iwire]

3 different categories, commercial, construction, utility. If you add them up Electrican ends up being the 3rd most dangerous job to have in the USA. After commercial fisherman and cop.

In my opinion if you add them up it pretty makes it a meaningless number. I could probably do the same in many trades. This is not to say there is not a lot of room for improvment.

If I recall falls and cuts are the number one accidents happening to electricians.

There really should be a law about safety training requirements to get your license, it would save lives.

I am sure eventually we will get there.

As much as your against the use if the 'tick tracers' try to understand even that is an huge step in the right direction.

I read in EC&M that there about 60,000 ECs in the US and various statistic posted here have placed the number of electricians at approximately 1/2 a million.

Even if we assume 25% (I doubt that high) of them have been to company sponsored safety classes that leaves a huge number that have not been. It's going to be a very slow process to get this training out to the 1 to 15 man shops that as a whole employee tens of thousands of electricians.

 

[76nemo]

I don't think the amount of time you have spent in the trade accident free is relevant. Fortunate, YES, relevant, NO. I find it very ignorant for some to shrug off PPE, extremely ignorant. I also don't like the term "mundane" in with safety discussions. We all study accidents, and try to decipher how they could of been avoided. At any given job, we are just a step away from a blast or flash. Who knows what was done to the service before we got there? There is NO way to tell.

I just can't seem to promote PPE enough, where some others feel they've gone this long, they're smart enough, they're careful, they're confident. Yeah, but confidence can kill,............real quick.

 

[zog]

In my opinion if you add them up it pretty makes it a meaningless number. I could probably do the same in many trades. This is not to say there is not a lot of room for improvment.

If I recall falls and cuts are the number one accidents happening to electricians.



I am sure eventually we will get there.

As much as your against the use if the 'tick tracers' try to understand even that is an huge step in the right direction.

I read in EC&M that there about 60,000 ECs in the US and various statistic posted here have placed the number of electricians at approximately 1/2 a million.

Even if we assume 25% (I doubt that high) of them have been to company sponsored safety classes that leaves a huge number that have not been. It's going to be a very slow process to get this training out to the 1 to 15 man shops that as a whole employee tens of thousands of electricians.

Never said I was againt the use of "Tic Tracers" I use one everyday, that is not the same as other non contact meters that rely on capacitive reactance.

http://www.professionalequipment.co...e-detector-high-low-tif300hv/voltage-testers/

 

[big john]

For those shopping for arc-flash kits:

For those shopping for arc-flash kits:

Don't even bother buying the gloves with the kit.

Odds are you're buying this kit for a bunch of different guys, right? Because of that everyone always buys a one-size-fits-all size 10 or 11 Class 1 gloves.

Because they aren't sized, these gloves usually don't fit anyone properly which makes them darned hard to work in. Also, Class 1 7,500 volt gloves are never necessary for electricians doing work that's only 480V max. They're heavy, bulky linemans' gloves that make it even more difficult to work with small parts.

Guys will end up bare-handing everything instead of trying to work in that pair of one-size-fits-all gloves that were provided for us. That's not the goal. Buy each guy their own pair of personally fitted, properly rated gloves.

-John

 

[76nemo]

Don't even bother buying the gloves with the kit.

Odds are you're buying this kit for a bunch of different guys, right? Because of that everyone always buys a one-size-fits-all size 10 or 11 Class 1 gloves.

Because they aren't sized, these gloves usually don't fit anyone properly which makes them darned hard to work in. Also, Class 1 7,500 volt gloves are never necessary for electricians doing work that's only 480V max. They're heavy, bulky linemans' gloves that make it even more difficult to work with small parts.

Guys will end up bare-handing everything instead of trying to work in that pair of one-size-fits-all gloves that were provided for us. That's not the goal. Buy each guy their own pair of personally fitted, properly rated gloves.

-John

Necessary is one adjective, piece of mind is another. I wear II's and leather in 480 panels. I sized them right to my hands, along with buckskin Kleins over them. They are easy to work with.

You have a great point. If your gloves are bulky and uncomfortable, they tend to stay idle.

 

[steveng]

Thanks

Thanks

In general you should not purchase PPE unless you know what ratings you need. Very few locations need Category 4 (although most facilities have at least 1 area). And don't forget the majority of qualified people will use Category 2 and lower, much more often than they will anything else.

Have you had any engineering study performed or are you using the task tables?

jim, i consulted with a testing company forman, who does the maintenance on our mv switchgear and transformers. i asked him, what rating ppe would we need at the college, i should have pressed him more on what this includes and what is necessary for the college elec maint staff to have.

i will do some searches and learn more about nfpa 70e.

thanks for your help, its great to have an ee give safety advice to those of us who don't know as much as we should.

Respectfully ,

steven

 

[jim dungar]

i will do some searches and learn more about nfpa 70e.

Good luck. There are many sources available so be prepare to do lots of research. I suggest a source that treats arc-flash as a separate issue rather than one that is directly affiliated with equipment (i.e. fuses) or PPE (i.e. clothing) sales.

Remember, if the only tool you own is a hammer, pretty soon everything looks like a nail.

Also pay attention to what has been discussed about deciding what tasks each employee needs to be qualified to perform.

 

[jim dungar]

I am in no way trying to upset you or question your abilities or knowledge, just stating what I feel.

This is not intended to promote an fight. But, are you saying you feel only qualified electricians should be working with the troubleshooting, maintenance, and servicing of electrical equipment and systems? If so how do feel about engineers, factory technicians, and certified testing agency employees?

No need to enter into an argument, I am just trying to understand your response to my description of my employer's Electrical Safe Work Practices program.

 

[brian john]

OK BryKey:

What makes someone qualified?

 

[zog]

Don't even bother buying the gloves with the kit.

Odds are you're buying this kit for a bunch of different guys, right? Because of that everyone always buys a one-size-fits-all size 10 or 11 Class 1 gloves.

Because they aren't sized, these gloves usually don't fit anyone properly which makes them darned hard to work in. Also, Class 1 7,500 volt gloves are never necessary for electricians doing work that's only 480V max. They're heavy, bulky linemans' gloves that make it even more difficult to work with small parts.

Guys will end up bare-handing everything instead of trying to work in that pair of one-size-fits-all gloves that were provided for us. That's not the goal. Buy each guy their own pair of personally fitted, properly rated gloves.

-John

Why would you buy Class 1 gloves for working on 480V? Class 00 gloves are very thin and pffer high dexterity, and are rated for 500V.