Prevailing question

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wiredit

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Hello everyone I am bidding on an apartment complex in California, and am having a helluva time finding out what the residential prevailing wage rate is. I called the state and they do not list them on the internet, and was told that the owner would know. I contacted the owner who says "we think" it is this rate, which happens to be the same rate as commercial electricians. I have not done any resi prevail projects in the past, but surely a guy ropin' romex isn't paid the same as pipe benders. Does anyone know where to find out or any thoughts? Thanks
 
wiredit said:
.... but surely a guy ropin' romex isn't paid the same as pipe benders.
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Don't be so sure! :cool:

You're paying for a guy with certain qualifications. You're not paying for a certain type of work product.
 
Thanks for the link, however it says right at the top, for commercial, etc. it does not say for residential. I read somewhere else that the state does not post residential prevailing rates online so that is why i am asking. I do enough commercial projects and it is easy to determine the rates online. I have never done a residential project that is prevailing so that is the reason for my question. And it may be that it is the same rate. It's just hard to bid for sure without knowing.
 
wiredit said:
Thanks for the link, however it says right at the top, for commercial, etc. it does not say for residential. I read somewhere else that the state does not post residential prevailing rates online so that is why i am asking. I do enough commercial projects and it is easy to determine the rates online. I have never done a residential project that is prevailing so that is the reason for my question. And it may be that it is the same rate. It's just hard to bid for sure without knowing.
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From the quality of work I've seen from the resi guys here lately, they can't be getting paid very much.:rolleyes:
 
cowboyjwc said:
From the quality of work I've seen from the resi guys here lately, they can't be getting paid very much.:rolleyes:
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That was unfair. Every time I comment on the pay of an inspector, the post gets yanked.
 
wiredit said:
but surely a guy ropin' romex isn't paid the same as pipe benders. Does anyone know where to find out or any thoughts? Thanks
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I resent that--:grin: but it is probably true. It seems that commercial electricians get more money than resi guys. It is not because they are any better-- anyone can learn to bend pipe or pull romex but it seems one can charge a lot more for commercial work. IMO
 
cowboyjwc said:
From the quality of work I've seen from the resi guys here lately, they can't be getting paid very much.:rolleyes:
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I don't get to excited when people tell me what an awesome job I did, just tells me what everyone else is doing...
 
wiredit said:
Hello everyone I am bidding on an apartment complex in California, and am having a helluva time finding out what the residential prevailing wage rate is. I called the state and they do not list them on the internet, and was told that the owner would know. I contacted the owner who says "we think" it is this rate, which happens to be the same rate as commercial electricians. I have not done any resi prevail projects in the past, but surely a guy ropin' romex isn't paid the same as pipe benders. Does anyone know where to find out or any thoughts? Thanks
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Many times, a large complex is deemed to be at "A" rate (the pipe bender rate ;)) due to:
- the overall size of the job (aka, dollar value)
- the nature of the job (2000+ amp service, multiple electric closets, etc)
- the scope of the job (interconnected FA, elevators,parking decks, lightning protection, etc)
- other items (temp power, light, heat and elevator, etc)

Sure the individual units are not big deal....but the rest of the project may not be familiar to the average romex roper...including the need for hardhats, workboots, conflicts of trades, etc.
 
cowboyjwc said:
From the quality of work I've seen from the resi guys here lately, they can't be getting paid very much.:rolleyes:
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I concur. I have visited so Cal on vacation a bunch of times, and on every visit I can't help myself but to go and "inspect" the many tract homes under construction. I'm pretty amazed at the lack of quality of the wiring being done. It looks like spaghetti thrown into the walls and ceiling, pretty much. Grounds not make up correctly, over driven staples, improper bundling, cables too close to the edge of studs, and cables run too close to the attic scuttle without protection are the violations I observed the most.
 
Some of them commercial guys have been running emt their whole carreer.
I took an application from a 8 year commercial guy. He didn't know how to pull a three way :confused: switch.
 
buckofdurham said:
Some of them commercial guys have been running emt their whole carreer.
I took an application from a 8 year commercial guy. He didn't know how to pull a three way :confused: switch.
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Some guys are just good at pulling wires, nobody said we had to teach them how to make them up...
 
mdshunk said:
That was unfair. Every time I comment on the pay of an inspector, the post gets yanked.
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Actually Marc, you might be right. Now that I reread it it does sound a little harsh.

The problem here is a lot of the guys are doing piece work and just aren't as concerened about the quality as they are the quanity.

I stopped one job and called all of the "electricians" together and asked them what they were trying to accomplish. When they asked me what I meant by the question, I simply told them that I could teach a monkey to rope a house, if you want to be an electrician you need to understand why you're doing what you're doing. It was one of those companies that had one crew rope the house, a second crew that set finish, and a third crew that trouble shot the house. The guys who roped the house didn't have any reason to worry about quality as the trouble shooting guys would fix it.
 
cowboyjwc said:
From the quality of work I've seen from the resi guys here lately, they can't be getting paid very much.:rolleyes:
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Id say for both resi and com - both gates too. If PW is involved everyone plays 'Farmer Joe' - milking cows here and there and the ends of wire never seem to meet IMO. When it all dries up they get real work at more competitive pricing and wages and asked to perform for it. I say this because my last two employers used to get those guys (when they got laid off) - and MAN it was like herding cats.... And when they went back to the cushie PW jobs - I would not bother saying goodbye.... Had a few complain I "worked them too hard" - of course that fell on deaf ears with the boss...:grin:
 
cowboyjwc said:
A
It was one of those companies that had one crew rope the house, a second crew that set finish, and a third crew that trouble shot the house. The guys who roped the house didn't have any reason to worry about quality as the trouble shooting guys would fix it.
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Since I'm the sole employee of the company I work for, I get to be all 3 of those. ;)

All kidding aside, I'm glad we don't have companies like that around here. I know it's common in the "hot" states of the south and west. We don't really have enough housing volume to set up companies like that. I worked for an EC that strictly wired new spec homes, and I usually went back to all the ones I roughed to trim them out. If you messed it up, you fixed it!
 
peter d said:
Since I'm the sole employee of the company I work for, I get to be all 3 of those. ;)

All kidding aside, I'm glad we don't have companies like that around here. I know it's common in the "hot" states of the south and west. We don't really have enough housing volume to set up companies like that. I worked for an EC that strictly wired new spec homes, and I usually went back to all the ones I roughed to trim them out. If you messed it up, you fixed it!
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I agree, personally, I wouldn't want to go back to someone else's headaches, I rough it in, I trim it out, and I never have a problem from start to finish... I'm not a mind reader and I like the way I work...
 
Well thanks everyone for your input, I actually found the answer I was needing by making a few phone calls. Seems the owner has to request the wage determination 45 prior to sending out plans to bid. Funny thing is, the most recent one that they got from the state is already expired. Gotta love CA. Also I agree that there is an extreme lack of quality in the residential sector, I believe in part due to illegal immigrants flooding the trade. I hope I didn't just open up a can of worms, but it's just my honest opinion. I actually pay my residential electricians piece work on houses and apartments, but they are not allowed to bill me for it until it is signed off by myself or my foreman. Believe me I am a safety nut when it comes to residential because of all the many things that can go wrong.
 
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