pricing

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peter d said:
I take it this Wagner is another EC that recently went bust?
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yep...resi track homes...tried to do some commercial...underbid jobs by 60%...No BS....

4 yrs ago they had 250-300 guys in the field...3 months ago, I was in a license class with one of the their foremen, they were running 60 guys...1 month ago, they closed up shop (ala CES)...have several mil in A/P to various local supply houses...

it's not unexpected...but still not something you wish on anyone...but hey, they were low bid on most of their projects and kept overhead down...
 
emahler said:
that's a lot of equipment...wonder what it will go for? and who will buy it?
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Eric, back in the late 70's we had one of these auctions every weekend, equipment was dirt cheap if you had money to buy anything, heck most of the electricins took jobs working, on the garbage truck for the township, or worked nights, in the local plants, cleaning tiolets or scrubbing floors. It took almost 2 years for things to start comming back a little.
 
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i don't think it will be that bad this time...but who really knows...$4/gal gas is right around the corner...

i might go to that auction, i'm liking that wire machine.....curious what else they might have...too bad no scissor lifts
 
emahler said:
yep...resi track homes...tried to do some commercial...underbid jobs by 60%...No BS....

4 yrs ago they had 250-300 guys in the field...3 months ago, I was in a license class with one of the their foremen, they were running 60 guys...1 month ago, they closed up shop (ala CES)...have several mil in A/P to various local supply houses...

it's not unexpected...but still not something you wish on anyone...but hey, they were low bid on most of their projects and kept overhead down...
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A spectacular failure....just like the implosion of CES. It all sounds eerily familiar.
 
emahler said:
i don't think it will be that bad this time...but who really knows...$4/gal gas is right around the corner...

i might go to that auction, i'm liking that wire machine.....curious what else they might have...too bad no scissor lifts
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Some say 6 to 9 months, we hope, you missed the deal of a lifetime at the MCI auction they had plenty of scissor lifts. But just stand by, there should be mort to come, all those low baller EC's are finally sinking.
 
satcom said:
Some say 6 to 9 months, we hope, you missed the deal of a lifetime at the MCI auction they had plenty of scissor lifts. But just stand by, there should be mort to come, all those low baller EC's are finally sinking.
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MCI's lifts were older then me...almost as old as Celtic...

they are, seems fairly quick too...word on the street is a LARGE union shop is in a bind...but that's just speculation and innuendo at this time...but we shall see...
 
peter d said:
On purpose????

No wonder they went under....you can play that game, but not for long.
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not really on purpose...more due to having no knowledge as to what they were doing...they were a tract home, bid by the square foot company...they tried to bid commercial the same way...it didn't work...

they bid a job at $45,000...got negotiated down to $39,000...the rest of the pack was at $110,000+/-...the gear package was around $30k (this was included in their quote)

oh, they went under before they could even start the job...
 
celtic said:
I don't care how YOU get the material...I am not supplying it :wink:




Actually ..you did.
You think all EC's are selling the same thing?
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I think that on a straightforward 100a to 200a service upgrade, most customers are not willing to entertain a 5500.00 bid for bolt in breakers and stainless steel meter pans when there's a 2400.00 option.

I also think that in the real world, a customer will get 4 different prices for exactly the same work and the same materials. And they're aware of this.

Think about it....you can get a burger off the $1 menu at BK or Mickey D's ....or you can get a burger at Shake Shack for $9....both will satisfy your need (your hungry), but which one is a better product?
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I've never had a ShakeShack burger.

How about a coffee...plenty of places to get a coffee for under $2 in NYC...so what's with Starbucks?
You just need a caffeine jolt, right?
So why are people paying in excess of $4 for a cup of joe?

Is Starbucks a better product?
What makes it worth a premium...the long line to buy it?
I'd really like to know because I don't drink coffee. :-?
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I'd say it's a different product. They're offering options you just can't get from a coffee cart or a "gourmet deli." But if all you want is a straightup cup of coffee, I wouldn't pay it. I'd seek out a coffee cart.

While it may seem as these places are "selling the same thing"...are they really?
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No, they're not selling the same thing.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
I also think that in the real world, a customer will get 4 different prices for exactly the same work and the same materials.
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So do I and I'm more than happy to give any customer the names and numbers of four reputable companies that they can call. I don't even need to use Mr. Sparky or Mr. Electric to get the price up there. All I need to do is give them the numbers for successful contractors that have been in business for 20 years are more.

If you leave the side-jobbers and handymen out of the bidding then you can get a fair price for a job. You may not sell the job for $5500 but you can often sell it for $3000-plus and that's much better than $1700.

The problem with being a side-jobber or handyman is that they only have one thing to offer and that's price. As a reputable company you can offer quality assurance and a good warranty. How can a guy that wants cash under the table offer a good warranty? What, take his word, you already know he's a crook for working off the books( just ask the IRS)? What quality assurance can you get from someone that's afraid to leave a paper trail?

Many people are willing to pay extra for the piece of mind in knowing that they are dealing with a reputable company that is licensed, insured and bonded. They also like to know that you have been in business for years and will be for years to come.



 
I built a high end fairly large condo complex (250 units) last year, and before I could get off the job the owner was selling units and people were taking possession while I was doing punch and last minute COs for the GC. By the time I did pull off the job they were at 80% occupancy. The cheapest unit sold for $400K

Maybe its my fault for not chasing the work but of the 200 occupied units I did not do a single job for any of the new owners. It felt like the Alamo, up on the parapets trying to finish my contract as 2,000 Mexicans in 200 trucks showed up with ladders paint, lumber wood floors ceiling fans and even new kitchen sinks. It looked like just about every new owner decided to upgrade before they moved in, and it got very complicated with other trades hired by private owners damaging our work.

It was a relief to finish that job, but a short lived one. Almost as soon as I pulled my last crew off the warranty calls started, and did no stop. After a hectic two weeks of dealing with irate and impatient owners I came to realize a large majority of the warranty issues were related to the side jobbers, handymen that had been brought in after my work had been done, but when something was not right, I got a call to fix it…for free.

I did not chase the work because I hate home owners and because its not my bread and butter, but found myself right in the middle a major dispute with homeowners, the HOA, the management company, and my GC who was my bread and butter.

It has caused some very hard feelings but I refused to fix somebody else’s shoddy work for free, and wrote letters for void the warranty of any unit had work done.

I leaned something but I don't think the HOs did.
 
emahler said:
what did you learn?
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Proactive: Do a better job of chasing work in my one back yard.

Reactive: I am drafting up language for my contracts that states work done by others to systems under my warranty, will void my warranty.
 
ITO said:
Proactive: Do a better job of chasing work in my one back yard.

Reactive: I am drafting up language for my contracts that states work done by others to systems under my warranty, will void my warranty.
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Any alterations, modifications and / or additions to wiring and / or devices installed by someone other than this contractor or his agent will void any and all warranties. Any service required after unauthorized alterations, modifications or additions will be subject to standard service rates in addition to any costs incurred to inspect the integrity of any or all devices and installation of such.
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Standard language used in every one of my contracts. Furthermore I do not hesitate to invoke this clause.

Tell the customer exactly what you're going to give them. Give the customer exactly you've told them.
Works for me.

FRANK
 
ITO said:
Reactive: I am drafting up language for my contracts that states work done by others to systems under my warranty, will void my warranty.
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Also state that there is a service call fee to come and check out work done by others.

If it's under warranty the service call is free. If I go out to a property and find out there have been changes made by others there is a fee for the call even if I just tell them to give a call to the people that did the work.

I expect all other also to give a warranty for their work it's a state law.
 
I'm not a lawyer but a solution that might help would be to ask for a credit card number from these warranty calls. If it's warranty work of course there's no charge. If the problem is related to another contractor there will be a service call fee and a quote for repairs. They may not be happy, but it's fair. I don't know if it would need to be in the contract of just company policy.

Dave
 
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