Probably a Really Dumb Question

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busman

busman

Senior Member
Location
Northern Virginia
Occupation
Master Electrician / Electrical Engineer
The topic is securing and supporting cables for residential dishwashers. I'm sure most of us have connected dishwashers with a length of romex from a JB under the sink or straight out of the wall. The NEC says the romex needs to be secured within 12 inches of the junction box on the dishwasher. Does zip-tying it to the discharge hose meet this requirement?

The source of this question is the differences between wiring methods. There seem to be 2 cases:

AC Cable, Flex, and others: have an exception under support for some length (it varies) at terminals requiring flexibility.

Romex, MC, and others: do not have this exception.

So the bottom line questions are:

Why do some methods have the exception and some not?

Do you need to use a method with the exception for a dishwasher?

I warned you it was a really dumb question.

Thanks,

Mark

[ December 06, 2005, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: busman ]
 
Re: Probably a Really Dumb Question

This is not really a dumb question at all. What is dumb is the way I have always ignored the code for this particular issue for all these years, and will continue to do so for the future until it gets exempted in the codebook.
 
Re: Probably a Really Dumb Question

Things and even things that don't make sense don't get changed in the NEC unless a proposal is submitted for the change. Most of the time the TCC or other task groups work to ensure a change in one section that would also apply to another section is found and changed also. This doesn't always happen.
 
Re: Probably a Really Dumb Question

can someone chime in on the code here. is a box connector that is external to the box. (romex connector) considered a support?
 
Re: Probably a Really Dumb Question

Mark
I think this is a very good question. It is funny how we can install for a method for years, because we are taught that method and no one questions it. Then one day a guy like Mark has this question.
Thanks Mark for putting a monkey wrench in an otherwise fine installation :D :D

I believe that there are many instances where there is no specific code rule/requirement that fits an installation. Then common sense and practical experience should come into play. The installation of NM Cable under the dishwasher is a perfect example of this, and has a track record of many years of installations to prove it is a safe installation.
With that said Mark, I would and have approved it, and I would ask your local inspector what he thinks.

The question of NM subject to physical damage under the dishwasher. That is also a pretty good question. And I give the same answer as above.
 
Re: Probably a Really Dumb Question

I "think" if you hard wire a dishwasher, than it's "service whip" of sorts. Subject to physical damage. What if you roll out dishwasher and wheels catch cable? Or do you cut romex so it just reaches the front access box?
 
Re: Probably a Really Dumb Question

Never gave it a thought. I have always looped the NM/B so that one could pull the DW out w/o disconnecting the power from the DW when service may be needed. It's a real bear to work under one of those thinks when in place. I've always recommended that a long enough flexible water supply an waste tube be provided.
I always fasten the NM/B securely in place at the point where it enters the DW cabinet space to assure that the NM/B can not be pulled from the DW cabinet space and place tension on the DW JB and the NM/B can not be pulled through from where it enters the cabinet space should the DW be pulled out.
 
Re: Probably a Really Dumb Question

I think using NM like this sounds like a bad idea. :(

Isn't the thing protecting it, likely to damage it? :confused:
 
Re: Probably a Really Dumb Question

I just looked at your profile Paul, so that's what you look like. :D
 
Re: Probably a Really Dumb Question

My copy of the NEC is not within reach but I think you need a disconnect for the dish washer.I use an SJ cord with a plug from the dish washer to wall outlet.
 
Re: Probably a Really Dumb Question

Originally posted by paul:
I trim out a receptacle and walk away from it.
Click to expand...
I'm in the process of doing just that for 90+ condo units.

If the unit does not arrive with a cap, that's an extra for the cord and cap.
 
Re: Probably a Really Dumb Question

Paul,

That is my question, where do you put it to make it accessible? You can't put it where the dishwasher goes, you won't be able to get to it. So do you put it under the sink? Drill a hole in the side cabinet?

I haven't wired a house since the mid 70's, and just found the receptacle idea intriguing.

I'm not sure, but your answer "422.16(B)(2)#4
" might indicate a snippy response. Was it?
 
Re: Probably a Really Dumb Question

All,

Thanks for all the replies. My preferred method is cord and plug if the dishwasher instructions permit it. I place the receptacle under the sink and drill a hole for the cord.

Mark
 
Re: Probably a Really Dumb Question

I see the dishwasher as being a prime candidate for 334.30(C). That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. (Yes, I do leave a foot loop in the wall. :)
 
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