Problem today with POCO and service change; opinions?

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brantmacga

brantmacga

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Location
Georgia
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Former Child
First job this morning was to replace SEU o/h service attached to fascia board with 2" mast penetrating the roof.

Original setup was SEU from panel to meter, SEU up wall across soffit to fascia, and GEC leaving the meter base and going to the water pipes.

I replaced the meter base (which wasn't planned; lineman said it was poco requirement for reconnect), put up the mast, and added a ground rod. I took the GEC from the new rod and the GEC from the water pipes and landed them both inside the meter base.

Inspection passed and I left.

HO called and said POCO was refusing to connect because of the water pipe bond. Lineman told HO it was too hazardous, and the HO could get shocked. hmm.

I went back to the job to talk w/ the lineman. He said the poco would not allow the water pipe bond at the service. He said the only thing they will allow to be bonded is a ground rod. hmm.

Lineman suggested I take the ground wire to the panel (fed with seu). hmm.

I asked for permission to install an external intersystem grounding bar on the meter base for the water pipes; access de-nied.

I landed the GEC from the pipes to the ground rod instead.


anyone have an opinion they'd like to share on this policy? Anyone else have a poco with this requirement?

poco was ga power.
 
Wonder what the reasoning was behind this lineman? Be tempted to go to the "next upline" super, and get the real answer - whether it be a new poco policy, or the lineman was having an off day, or whatever the reason. Bookmarked....
 
Rockyd said:
. . . go to the "next up-line" super, and get the real answer - whether it be a new poco policy, or the lineman was having an off day, or whatever the reason. . .
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Sorry, I agree with getting the straight story but not from his supervisor. Go to the Distribution Engineering Supervisor. The Line Department Supervisor is, most likely, an ex-lineman who has progressed through the ranks. The Distribution Engineering Supervisor is most likely an engineer who is involved with the standards process. However, the engineers that work for him may or may not know the answer. :smile:
 
brantmacga said:
I landed the GEC from the pipes to the ground rod instead.
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That won't fly unless the wire from the meter to the rod is as large as the water-pipe EGC is supposed to be.
 
brantmacga said:
?I replaced the meter base (which wasn't planned; lineman said it was poco requirement for reconnect), put up the mast, and added a ground rod. I took the GEC from the new rod and the GEC from the water pipes and landed them both inside the meter base.

Inspection passed and I left...

I landed the GEC from the pipes to the ground rod instead?
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Is your water pipe actually ?an electrode? (250.A(1))? If it does not meet all this criteria it just simply needs to bond 250.104, and the POCO is correct.

If your water pipe is an electrode you probably could install either GEC to the meter base but not both.
 
Grounding

Grounding

We have the same thing here. PECO book of rules states that they do not want any GEC in meter base. I was wondering how you terminated the CEC in meterbase. Is there a lug for it? They don't even like the GEC in a CT cabinet. Not an NEC issue, just their thing.
 
iam14sure said:
We have the same thing here. PECO book of rules states that they do not want any GEC in meter base. I was wondering how you terminated the CEC in meterbase. Is there a lug for it? They don't even like the GEC in a CT cabinet. Not an NEC issue, just their thing.
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Here in California we terminate the GEC at the service disconnect. The POCE seal their meters I think they want to keep the least amount of items to manage behind it as possible. The service entrance is a place the POCO share responsibilities with the customer, they try to limit these responsibilities.
 
Here, Georgia Power will not allow it in their meter bases, where the EMC's require it in their meter base. If the water pipe does qualify, and you loop off the ground rod, if it is not a continous length, the connection needs to be exothermic weld or irreversible compression conection. It will have to be sized in accordence the table for grounding electrode conductor size.
 
Thanks Charlie. Just looking for something besides boiler plate language in a document. If it has solid logic behind it, would like to see, or hear it. Thanks for guidance through Poco's house.
 
both GEC's were #4; original electrode was pipes only. Meter base has lugs for GEC, as that's where they have to go.
 
I smell a lawyer!

I suppose you could get a situation where the connection to the ground rod is broken (lawnmower, etc.), AND the homeowner replaces the main underground metal water line with PVC, AND the neutral comes loose, then someone gets zapped by touching a water pipe.

And when these things happen, lawyers tend to sue anyone in anyway remotely connected with the situation. It does not matter that most of the companies being sued are not at fault. They still need to pay lawyers to defend themselves in court.
 
brantmacga said:
both GEC's were #4; original electrode was pipes only. Meter base has lugs for GEC, as that's where they have to go.
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Or they could go into the panel.

Also, how did you get that rod to measure <25 ohms?
 
electricmanscott said:
Or they could go into the panel.

Also, how did you get that rod to measure <25 ohms?
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did i miss something?

i thought the code only required one rod when supplementary to the pipe bond?
 
brantmacga said:
did i miss something?

i thought the code only required one rod when supplementary to the pipe bond?
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but didn't you say you removed the pipe bond? If so now there's no connection to the pipe at all and your rod is the only electrode. where's you supplemental ground?
 
steelersman said:
but didn't you say you removed the pipe bond? If so now there's no connection to the pipe at all and your rod is the only electrode. where's you supplemental ground?
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In the first post of this thread:

brantmacga said:
I landed the GEC from the pipes to the ground rod instead.
Click to expand...

Pipe's are connected to rod, rod is connected to meter base.
 
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