Problem with another electrician NEC violations

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silverbk

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I am an electrician for over twenty years. I hold Master's Licenses in two Counties. I have wired residential and light commercial for my entire career.

I just purchased a new construction home in a different county that I work in (Dutchess County, NY). Here there is no license requirement, and there are a choice of companies that electricians can use to inspect their work.

My new home has: A microwave oven outlet, that is not on it's own circuit, so every time it's powered up the kitchen lights go dim. This is the built in style that mounts above the range.

I opened a box to install a dimmer and I noticed that instead of making splices and adding pigtails, they just landed the extra wires on the screws. So on one switch, I had one wire stuck in the back (fine here) and then two jammed under the screw!

I then went and opened every high box in the house and they are all the same. Same story on switched outlets.

In the master bedroom I have a switch that controls nothing. I can't find a switched outlet. They also failed to give me three way in my dining room, so I can only control the lights from one single pole at one entrance.

In the panel I have the neutral and equipment ground for each circuit landed under one screw.

Additionally, in the other bedrooms the switch controls the outlet closest to the door, a location I can literally reach from the doorway. Not a violation but an example of poor quality work.

So far he has demonstrated a poor working knowledge of the NEC and he failed to test everything in the house.

Any caveats or recommendations before I call this guy back here and then write a letter to the AHJ and the BBB? I would prefer to have this guy fix everything on his dime, rather than going the latter route.
 
You may also want to try contacting the builder. The builder is the one who pays the subs, and if you can get him to back you up, maybe the other 'electrician' will need to perform in order to get paid.
 
I take a sort of sick pleasure in finding violations in work that recently passed inspection. When something needs to be done about it, which is rather seldom in comparison to the number of violations found, my first call is normally to the inspection agency. I like to talk to the particular inspector who finaled the work if that's known to me. Part of the fat-head syndrome.
 
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A few things are in violation, yet my questions (if I may):
-Age of home (new home could mean you just moved to a different location)
-Was there new wiring installed to the panel
-Was there a panel or service change
-Did the electrical contractor (or whatever) install new devices (switches etc)


edited to add: If I may
 
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resistance said:
A few things are in violation, yet my questions (if I may):
-Age of home (new home could mean you just moved to a different location)
-Was there new wiring installed to the panel
-Was there a panel or service change
-Did the electrical contractor (or whatever) install new devices (switches etc)


edited to add: If I may
Click to expand...

He mentioned "new constuction", which I took to mean the entire house is new.

steve
 
silverbk said:
I am an electrician for over twenty years. I hold Master's Licenses in two Counties. I have wired residential and light commercial for my entire career.

I just purchased a new construction home in a different county that I work in (Dutchess County, NY). Here there is no license requirement, and there are a choice of companies that electricians can use to inspect their work.

My new home has: A microwave oven outlet, that is not on it's own circuit, so every time it's powered up the kitchen lights go dim. This is the built in style that mounts above the range.
Click to expand...

I'll bet it's fed from the range hood feed, which would be OK on the same circuit as the kitchen lights. Was the microwave / hood an extra?

I opened a box to install a dimmer and I noticed that instead of making splices and adding pigtails, they just landed the extra wires on the screws. So on one switch, I had one wire stuck in the back (fine here) and then two jammed under the screw!
Click to expand...

2 wires around one screw, or one wire (feed) stripped to land on the screw, and then continue on to the next switch? That was and probably still is common residential wiring practice.

I then went and opened every high box in the house and they are all the same. Same story on switched outlets.

In the master bedroom I have a switch that controls nothing. I can't find a switched outlet.
Click to expand...

Probably the closest outlet was miswired, and the switched leg is there, and the finisher forgot to break the tab between the top & bottom of the receptacle.

They also failed to give me three way in my dining room, so I can only control the lights from one single pole at one entrance.
Click to expand...

Did you pay for an extra 3-way?

In the panel I have the neutral and equipment ground for each circuit landed under one screw.
Click to expand...

This was obviously a drive-by inspection.
Additionally, in the other bedrooms the switch controls the outlet closest to the door, a location I can literally reach from the doorway. Not a violation but an example of poor quality work.
Click to expand...

Switching an outlet further away would cost more. Did you request this extra?

So far he has demonstrated a poor working knowledge of the NEC and he failed to test everything in the house.
Click to expand...

When I wired houses, often there was no power to do a test, especially when the finish work is done. Many wiremen came and went, their errors which were known were corrected, but their entire job was not inspected for hidden errors in code or workmanship. Seeing as a residential wireman today isn't paid much more than I was back in the 80's, I can't imaging the pick of employees has gotten any better.

Any caveats or recommendations before I call this guy back here and then write a letter to the AHJ and the BBB? I would prefer to have this guy fix everything on his dime, rather than going the latter route.
Click to expand...

I'd call the contractor directly. Forget the BBB that's like calling the mob because you have a problem with a loan shark. I'd drop a dime to whatever private company did the inspection as well. Finding a couple of errors is possible in any home, but the situation with that panel screams "drive by."
 
silverbk said:
Here there is no license requirement, and there are a choice of companies that electricians can use to inspect their work.

Any caveats or recommendations before I call this guy back here and then write a letter to the AHJ and the BBB? I would prefer to have this guy fix everything on his dime, rather than going the latter route.
Click to expand...

I would write your State Legislature and demand consumer protection by creating a License requirement. Then write the township that wants people there to pay thier salaries to hire an "Inspector" - i.e. a "Building Official".... This is somethong that out-sourcing can not accomplish IMO
 
I saw a home inprovement show a while back showing the guy landing the ground and neutral under the same terminal in the panel, I thought it was the end of the world.
THEN, I realized that it was the service entrance panel with the service disconnect as the main in the panel, the terminals, I noticed in an identical panel were rated for two conductors. Live and learn.
 
jrannis said:
I saw a home inprovement show a while back showing the guy landing the ground and neutral under the same terminal in the panel, I thought it was the end of the world.
THEN, I realized that it was the service entrance panel with the service disconnect as the main in the panel, the terminals, I noticed in an identical panel were rated for two conductors. Live and learn.
Click to expand...


Now learn again...the right way. One grounded (neutral) conductor under a ternminal. Two or three equipment grounding condcutors if allowed by manufacturer.

The op's situation is a disgrace to our proffesion. Even though some of the items in question are not violations, and some here seem to think many are not or are ok anyay, which just goes to show how these things can happen, there are major wiring issues in that house. The list here is of things he has seen or can be seen. What else is there behind the walls??


What I am really wondering is did you ever look at this house before you bought it?? :confused:
 
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electricmanscott said:
Now learn again...the right way. One grounded (neutral) conductor under a ternminal. Two or three equipment grounding condcutors if allowed by manufacturer.

The op's situation is a disgrace to our proffesion. Even though some of the items in question are not violations, and some here seem to think many are not or are ok anyay, which just goes to show how these things can happen, there are major wiring issues in that house. The list here is of things he has seen or can be seen. What else is there behind the walls??


What I am really wondering is did you ever look at this house before you bought it?? :confused:
Click to expand...

Ill have to read the label again.... I dont think it specified grounded or equipment ground. Possibly NEC?
 
jrannis said:
Ill have to read the label again.... I dont think it specified grounded or equipment ground. Possibly NEC?
Click to expand...

See 408.41 ('05 NEC) Each grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal that is also not used for another conductor.

This brings the NEC in line with manufacturers instructions. The instructions often allow multiple EGCs in one terminal, but not grounded conductors.
 
Two wires under one screw is not common in residential work for this area, nor should it be in any device installaiton.

It is usually easy to find some sort of NEC violation because we all seem to see it differently, but yours sounds PP (pretty poor).

Would you actually trust the guy that did this work to come back in and do it correctly on his own dime?
 
Your new home contains a host of problems. This was caused by the lack of a thorough inspection process and the allowing of untrained and unlicensed individuals doing the work. I doubt that contacting the inspector would do much good unless you're willing to expose his lack of ability or professionalism to his boss.

You should start with the builder who sold you the house. The buyer of a new home has a reasonable assumption that the place is constructed and complies with all applicable building codes and standards. The place is defective. Many states have laws protecting buyers from sellers who do not disclose defects within the home.

IMO if the builder (seller) doesn't make all of the necessary corrections the next call is to an Attorney. Your ability to sell the damaged property in the future may be compromised not to mention the fact that you and your family will be sleeping in a house that may be unsafe.
 
resistance said:
A few things are in violation, yet my questions (if I may):
-Age of home (new home could mean you just moved to a different location)
-Was there new wiring installed to the panel
-Was there a panel or service change
-Did the electrical contractor (or whatever) install new devices (switches etc)


edited to add: If I may
Click to expand...

House is new construction 0 years old. This electrician roughed it from the start. He also installed the underground service and the panel, as well as the lights, outlets and switches.
 
electricmanscott said:
Now learn again...the right way. One grounded (neutral) conductor under a ternminal. Two or three equipment grounding condcutors if allowed by manufacturer.

The op's situation is a disgrace to our proffesion. Even though some of the items in question are not violations, and some here seem to think many are not or are ok anyay, which just goes to show how these things can happen, there are major wiring issues in that house. The list here is of things he has seen or can be seen. What else is there behind the walls??


What I am really wondering is did you ever look at this house before you bought it?? :confused:
Click to expand...

The sheetrock was already up when I looked at the house. In this case it's hiding more than studs and insulation.
 
I agree with lawnguy. The only real nec violations are the neutral/ground connections and the microwave wireing. Was the Electrican told about the Microwave on the rough? The rest is design issue and simple mistakes. Fix it your self and forget about. Code says switched outlet. It dosen't which one. find the switched outlet and break the tab. Code does not require any 3/w switches. I always left a long pigtail and wraped the wire around the screw and went to the next one and wraped that one. Faster at rough and trim.
 
Cavie said:
I agree with lawnguy. The only real nec violations are the neutral/ground connections and the microwave wireing.
Click to expand...


What about the two wires under on screw on the devices? IMO that's a major blunder.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
I'll bet it's fed from the range hood feed, which would be OK on the same circuit as the kitchen lights. Was the microwave / hood an extra?

Even it is was it is the Electrician's job to find out what equipment is going in and provide the correct circuit for it. This guy went through the trouble of installing an outlet inside the cabinet. So it makes sense that he knew a microwave was coming.



2 wires around one screw, or one wire (feed) stripped to land on the screw, and then continue on to the next switch? That was and probably still is common residential wiring practice.

It is a violation of the NEC to put two wires under one screw on a switch or an outlet. Running a pigtail from one switch to another is OK on the feed as long as there are no other wires tapped off. A much better way and less labor in my opinion is to make a splice in the box and provide pigtails for each device.



Probably the closest outlet was miswired, and the switched leg is there, and the finisher forgot to break the tab between the top & bottom of the receptacle.

Again an example of poor workmanship. Are you telling me that it is OK for an experienced electrician to miswire an outlet? This is one of the first things we learn in electrician school. I would expect this kind of mistake from a homeowner, not someone in the business.



Did you pay for an extra 3-way?

No I paid for the house to be up to code.



This was obviously a drive-by inspection.


Switching an outlet further away would cost more. Did you request this extra?

This is not a code violation but another example of the guy's inexperience and cheaping out. It makes no sense to switch an outlet you can reach from the door. You need to envision where the bed will be and locate the switched outlet behind it. Amazingly the telephone and TV outlets are arranged logically like this, but not the switched outlets.



When I wired houses, often there was no power to do a test, especially when the finish work is done. Many wiremen came and went, their errors which were known were corrected, but their entire job was not inspected for hidden errors in code or workmanship. Seeing as a residential wireman today isn't paid much more than I was back in the 80's, I can't imaging the pick of employees has gotten any better.

This is probably true but not an excuse. It is the electrician's responsibility to make sure the house is wired to code and safe, regardless of the labor he uses to assist him.



I'd call the contractor directly. Forget the BBB that's like calling the mob because you have a problem with a loan shark. I'd drop a dime to whatever private company did the inspection as well. Finding a couple of errors is possible in any home, but the situation with that panel screams "drive by."
Click to expand...

I have an obligation to protect other consumers from this lack of quality. Any way I can jet the word out. If I have to follow this guy to every job he goes to and inform the customer personally, I will. If he's going to remain in the business and call himself an electrician he should learn this lesson as soon as possible.
 
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