Proper way to splice?

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david said:
They land on a terminal that bonds the enclosure, if the equipment grounds where spliced together they would still need to bond to the enclosure
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Good point but I wonder if a ground bar be used for a splicing point on a branch circuit? :)
 
Another off topic concern, for no more than what can be seen. With tandem breakers and black/red on each with presumed 12-3 or 14-3 NM cable - those black and reds likely are using a common neutral but are on same line/phase of the supply, so we possibly have improperly done MWBC's.
 
kwired said:
Another off topic concern, for no more than what can be seen. With tandem breakers and black/red on each with presumed 12-3 or 14-3 NM cable - those black and reds likely are using a common neutral but are on same line/phase of the supply, so we possibly have improperly done MWBC's.
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Could be correct or incorrect but would require tracing the conductors back to where the cables enter the panel. Should that be mentioned on an HI report?
 
infinity said:
Could be correct or incorrect but would require tracing the conductors back to where the cables enter the panel. Should that be mentioned on an HI report?
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As I mentioned "for no more than what can be seen", but if my concern ends up being what is happening then I sure hope it gets mentioned in an HI report. Full view image of the cabinet may be enough to be able to verify.
 
infinity said:
Could be correct or incorrect but would require tracing the conductors back to where the cables enter the panel. Should that be mentioned on an HI report?
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If the HI is qualified enough to critique electrical installations, he/she should certainly know how to look and identify whether MWBC's are correctly fed.
 
Seems odd to me the Ground Bar has a bonding jumper to the Tub, but, maybe it's designed that way.

Is the bar itself not screwed to the panel tub?

JAP>
 
jap said:
Seems odd to me the Ground Bar has a bonding jumper to the Tub, but, maybe it's designed that way.

Is the bar itself not screwed to the panel tub?

JAP>
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it depends. if it is a ground bar that is screwed to the flat part of the enclosure it is unlikely that the required two thread engagements would be made so that would require the conductor.

if the bar is mounted on the raised bosses that are sometimes provided for such things, when they are made they are made thick enough to meet the two thread engagement requirement.
 
I've never had to install an additional bonding jumper to the can when a factory ground bar was used.

Nor have I ever seen one come with the packaging.

JAP>
 
jap said:
I've never had to install an additional bonding jumper to the can when a factory ground bar was used.

Nor have I ever seen one come with the packaging.

JAP>
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Why would it come with one, when it should not be needed? They expect you to install it on the bosses provided. I cannot tell for sure in this case, but there are a couple of ridges on the enclosure at the left end of the ground bar leading me to believe it was installed in a position the manufacturer intended, thus likely requiring no additional means of connection to the box. it is certainly acceptable to add the extra connection to the box even if not required, although it would have been easier to just run it up to the neutral bar assuming it is bonded to the box.
 
petersonra said:
Why would it come with one, when it should not be needed?
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My point exactly.
The jumper he's using is the one that usually comes for the neutral bar bonding jumper, bent all out of shape, to fit a hole that he probably didn't need to use in the first place.


JAP>
 
Now,, for those who know,,, does a Sq D ground bar come with a jumper such as what's in the picture?

JAP>
 
yup. of course the one in the photo was installed by a dum dum. and backwards. and not needed. the lug ends are under the green..:) you can see the single phillips head bond screw. now wither this is some part off a add a lug or something is another question! all panels (ok, most) will come with everything needed for a main or sub.

edit- but it could come in the form of a strap or screw....
 
jap said:
Now,, for those who know,,, does a Sq D ground bar come with a jumper such as what's in the picture?

JAP>
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My experience:. Square d loadcenters do not come with a ground bar. When you buy a ground bar it comes with 2 8-32 screws. Siemens loadcenters come with ground bars installed. Siemens panelboards come with ground bar in a separate package with a couple screws. I don't recall any panelboard or load center having raised bosses or formed area to provide more thickness than the cabinet, except for those square d 6/12's for some reason.
 
electrofelon said:
My experience:. Square d loadcenters do not come with a ground bar. When you buy a ground bar it comes with 2 8-32 screws. Siemens loadcenters come with ground bars installed. Siemens panelboards come with ground bar in a separate package with a couple screws. I don't recall any panelboard or load center having raised bosses or formed area to provide more thickness than the cabinet, except for those square d 6/12's for some reason.
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i think it may be that only the smaller ones come with them, maybe because the enclosure wall is thinner.

perhaps the enclosure wall is thick enough on larger boxes to satisfy UL. Two threads engagement of a 32 pitch screw is 0.0625" or 1/16". I could see Ul accepting the idea that two screws in a 1/32" thick piece of sheet metal was roughly equivalent to one screw in a piece of 1/16" sheet metal. uit just so happens that 20 AWG sheet steel is 0.0359" thick, or just over 1/32" thick. So two screws in a 20 AWG piece of sheet metal would be two thread engagements.
 
electrofelon said:
My experience:. Square d loadcenters do not come with a ground bar. When you buy a ground bar it comes with 2 8-32 screws. Siemens loadcenters come with ground bars installed. Siemens panelboards come with ground bar in a separate package with a couple screws. I don't recall any panelboard or load center having raised bosses or formed area to provide more thickness than the cabinet, except for those square d 6/12's for some reason.
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That's been my experience also.
Same with Easton.


Jap>
 
electrofelon said:
My experience:. Square d loadcenters do not come with a ground bar. When you buy a ground bar it comes with 2 8-32 screws. Siemens loadcenters come with ground bars installed. Siemens panelboards come with ground bar in a separate package with a couple screws. I don't recall any panelboard or load center having raised bosses or formed area to provide more thickness than the cabinet, except for those square d 6/12's for some reason.
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My experience is if you purchase at supply house the main lug only panels usually have a EGC bar, not installed but included in the package and main breaker panels usually don't have any EGC bars included. But purchase at a home center/big box store and you sometimes get an EGC bar factory installed with a main breaker panel and often don't get an EGC bar at all with most MLO panels - makes sense doesn't it?

jap said:
Now,, for those who know,,, does a Sq D ground bar come with a jumper such as what's in the picture?

JAP>
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That cabinet in the OP is not a Square D cabinet, can tell by looking at bottom wall KO pattern. So another issue in OP is that we have Homeline breakers in a panel they likely are not listed for. And no I have never seen a similar jumper in any Square D loadcenter.
 
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