Pull box at disconnect location.

[Cjmccarthy]

I have a job where the contractor pulled the conductor from the pull box through a 2 inch buried conduit directly into the disconnect 350' away. This is not the way every other job has been done for the FDOT, I have been looking through the NEC code book trying to find where they would need to put a pull box at the service pole, is there a code I can use?

 

[roger]

If they didn't put more than 360 deg of bends in the raceway they do not need a pull box.

 

[Cjmccarthy]

If they didn't put more than 360 deg of bends in the raceway they do not need a pull box.

I don't think they did, even if they put two 90° elbows at the service pole location, that would only be 180°. It is going to make it a pain in the butt if we have to replace the conductor for any reason.

 

[infinity]

I don't think they did, even if they put two 90° elbows at the service pole location, that would only be 180°. It is going to make it a pain in the butt if we have to replace the conductor for any reason.

How so? Didn't they pull the original conductors in without a problem?

 

[Cjmccarthy]

How so? Didn't they pull the original conductors in without a problem?

Yes, but when they pulled the wires to the location, it was before the site was assembled (the disconnect, conduits, and the concrete pad around the pole) so we would have to break up the concrete in order to be able to disassemble the disconnect and conduits if we had a problem pulling the wire.

 

[infinity]

Yes, but when they pulled the wires to the location, it was before the site was assembled (the disconnect, conduits, and the concrete pad around the pole) so we would have to break up the concrete in order to be able to disassemble the disconnect and conduits if we had a problem pulling the wire.

Since there are only two 90's in the run I wouldn't worry about it. If the pullbox was below the switch how would that change anything? I'm not sure why you would need to break up the concrete.

 

[roger]

Yes, but when they pulled the wires to the location, it was before the site was assembled (the disconnect, conduits, and the concrete pad around the pole) so we would have to break up the concrete in order to be able to disassemble the disconnect and conduits if we had a problem pulling the wire.

Pulling that distance with even four 90's would not be an issue. I have pulled upwards of 900' of four 500's without a pull box. The is some concern with pulling tension harming conductors but doubtful it would be an issue with your pull.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Since there are only two 90's in the run I wouldn't worry about it. If the pullbox was below the switch how would that change anything? I'm not sure why you would need to break up the concrete.

If you take the guts out of the disconnect, you would probably have more room to pull new wire than you would have in a code sized pull box which would be required to have a height equal to 8 times the conduit trade size.

 

[Cjmccarthy]

Pulling that distance with even four 90's would not be an issue. I have pulled upwards of 900' of four 500's without a pull box. The is some concern with pulling tension harming conductors but doubtful it would be an issue with your pull.

We have had issues pulling 800' feet in a 2" HDPE conduit, when the contractor installs the conduit it is not quite level, the conduit snakes up and down and side to side that whole 800ft. that puts friction points on the cable. The DOT did up the cable jacketing to XHHW.

 

[Cjmccarthy]

If you take the guts out of the disconnect, you would probably have more room to pull new wire than you would have in a code sized pull box which would be required to have a height equal to 8 times the conduit trade size.

The FDOT likes to have a pull box at each service point, but the contractor is arguing the fact that it is a service point. I was hoping to come at it a different way

 

[wwhitney]

The FDOT likes to have a pull box at each service point, but the contractor is arguing the fact that it is a service point.

Note 4 is pretty clear: "A Pull Box is required at each service point." So where is the service point upstream of that disconnect, and does it have a pull box?

If the service point is among the equipment on that pad, and if that disconnect is for the only underground feeder leaving the pad, then Note 4 would require a pull box after the disconnect. Whereas if there are other underground feeders leaving the pad, one of which has a pull box, Note 4 is satisfied. Or if the service point is elsewhere, Note 4 doesn't apply to the equipment on the pad.

If Note 4 doesn't properly express Florida DOT's desired requirements for pull boxes, then Note 4 needs to be updated. The NEC doesn't have any requirements akin to Note 4.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[infinity]

I have been looking through the NEC code book trying to find where they would need to put a pull box at the service pole, is there a code I can use?

What is the question? In the OP you're searching for an an NEC code section that would require to pull box. There isn't one. If the spec requires one then that is not a code issue.

 

[Cjmccarthy]

What is the question? In the OP you're searching for an an NEC code section that would require to pull box. There isn't one. If the spec requires one then that is not a code issue.

The FDOT Standards also rely on the NEC code book, as Wayne mentioned it is pretty clear, but the contractor is fighting it. I was hoping there would be a NEC code that I could come at them with to make them put in a pull box.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The FDOT likes to have a pull box at each service point, but the contractor is arguing the fact that it is a service point. I was hoping to come at it a different way

View attachment 2561260

Your original question was about an NEC rule....there is none.

In addition, I don't see a meter in the picture, so this is unlikely to be a "service point". If this is not a service point and there is no additional drawings showing the pull box for a feeder disconnect, you would own the contractor an extra cost change order if you want them to provide the pull box.

In my opinion, you risk additional damage to the conductors anytime you handle them at a pull point, and because of that, unnecessary pull points should be avoided.

 

[infinity]

The FDOT Standards also rely on the NEC code book, as Wayne mentioned it is pretty clear, but the contractor is fighting it. I was hoping there would be a NEC code that I could come at them with to make them put in a pull box.the

Your choices are enforce what is in the specification or do nothing. The NEC has no remedy for what you are asking simply because the pull box is not required.

 

[Cjmccarthy]

Your choices are enforce what is in the specification or do nothing. The NEC has no remedy for what you are asking simply because the pull box is not required.

Understood.

 

[mtnelect]

9-13.7 Pull Boxes​

Pull boxes should be installed to limit the length of conductor pull, to provide a point where conduits can be branched and/or conductors can be spliced and to simplify access to standards, poles and cabinets.

9-13.8 Installation of Pull Boxes​

Pull Boxes should be installed:

1. At 60 m, or less, spacing in conduit runs;

2. At locations where conduits branch;

3. Adjacent to the foundation for each signal standard, lighting standard, illuminated sign, controller cabinet or service cabinet; and

4. At the toe of slope or at the hinge point when placed on a slope.

Pull boxes should not be installed in the traveled way if it can be avoided. When it is necessary to install them in the traveled way, the box, cover and foundation should be capable of supporting heavy wheel loading.

60 meters = 200 ft.

 

[Cjmccarthy]

9-13.7 Pull Boxes​

Pull boxes should be installed to limit the length of conductor pull, to provide a point where conduits can be branched and/or conductors can be spliced and to simplify access to standards, poles and cabinets.

9-13.8 Installation of Pull Boxes​

Pull Boxes should be installed:

1. At 60 m, or less, spacing in conduit runs;

2. At locations where conduits branch;

3. Adjacent to the foundation for each signal standard, lighting standard, illuminated sign, controller cabinet or service cabinet; and

4. At the toe of slope or at the hinge point when placed on a slope.

Pull boxes should not be installed in the traveled way if it can be avoided. When it is necessary to install them in the traveled way, the box, cover and foundation should be capable of supporting heavy wheel loading.

60 meters = 200 ft.

I did not see that in the MUTCD, I can reference that code book, but unfortunately it is only in the California Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices.

 

[mtnelect]

I did not see that in the MUTCD, I can reference that code book, but unfortunately it is only in the California Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices.

On December 16, 2009, a final rule adopting the 2009 Edition of the MUTCD was published in the Federal Register with an effective date of January 15, 2010. States must adopt the 2009 National MUTCD as their legal State standard for traffic control devices within two years from the effective date.

 

[Cjmccarthy]

On December 16, 2009, a final rule adopting the 2009 Edition of the MUTCD was published in the Federal Register with an effective date of January 15, 2010. States must adopt the 2009 National MUTCD as their legal State standard for traffic control devices within two years from the effective date.

Understood, but what you referenced was from the "California Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices" the MUTCD manual I can reference does not have that section. https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/pdfs/2009r1r2/mutcd2009r1r2edition.pdf