Pulling numbers out of a hat

[SmithBuilt]

Trying to start a business with no working capital is the first step to failure.

I doubt many ECs started with the amount of capitol you are referring to.

It doesn't have to be you.Ask yourself who is the highest EC in town? Why can't it be you?

I am one of the highest. As I stated earlier. Sometimes I still get the job. Many times the customer will get more than one bid and they will be ridiculously low.

I wish there was a way to educate all the EC's on sales and raise the rates overall.

 

[emahler]

grassroots...1 EC at a time....keep from getting dragged down to their level...good luck...

 

[satcom]

I doubt many ECs started with the amount of capitol you are referring to.


I am one of the highest. As I stated earlier. Sometimes I still get the job. Many times the customer will get more than one bid and they will be ridiculously low.

I wish there was a way to educate all the EC's on sales and raise the rates overall.

In my area we have over 200 EC's in the local phone directory, and a good half of them are willing to work for bag boy wages, their prices are in the mud, and they have no clue, most are one step from a living under the thruway, in a cardboard box, and yet they continue to price low, I think they have a fear of rejection, problem, and it controls their life. The other 100 or so electricians will ask the higher prices for service upgrades, and do well, I guess, they are strong eniough to overcome rejection. They are not bad people, they just can't bring themself to ask for any amount of payment, they would fair much better working for someone else for a wage. Whatever business venture they would enter, would end up a disaster, Everyone should try to understand, this group will not change their pricing habits, they can't help themself.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

grassroots...1 EC at a time....keep from getting dragged down to their level...good luck...

So in a nutshell, you want to organize every EC to subscribe to a minimum standard, in an effort to raise overall income and working conditions in the electrical industry? Sounds good to me.

 

[electricmanscott]

So in a nutshell, you want to organize every EC to subscribe to a minimum standard, in an effort to raise overall income and working conditions in the electrical industry? Sounds good to me.

It does sound good, and it proabably was at one time. Before the ego driven power hungry thugs decided to take over.

 

[romexking]

So in a nutshell, you want to organize every EC to subscribe to a minimum standard, in an effort to raise overall income and working conditions in the electrical industry? Sounds good to me.

There is already a minimum standard, but does everyone follow it...no. You will always have people performing sub standard work. The best we can hope for is to have several contractors in any area start to perform exceptional work, then most of the public will want this type of work as the minimum standard.

yeah...good luck with that.

 

[Rewire]

I could care less what some other electrician charges or how they do the work .I don't sweat the hacks and lowballers they actually make getting my price easier because after they have burned a customer with lousey work selling quality is a breeze.Nobody sets the bar for me I set it for everyone else.

 

[tonyou812]

<P>

go ahead and laugh, there are contractors out there who get over $300/billable hour every day of the week...why not figure out how they are doing it and emulate them, instead of making a weak attempt make fun of them with bad humor?

</P>
<P>You really make no sense. In one post you are making fun of the guy who is charging 500 an hour and then you somehow know what I am billing every week and you bust my chops about what I am charging. So let me get this straight lets say he does a service change and it takes him 20 hours according to one of your previous post's on how long a service change takes ,let me see........that would make it 10000 dollars for a service change. Boy I bet youll be raking in the customers. And what do you do with your help when you are busy watching Judge Mathis? Or do you plan on working alone your whole carrer? Emaler im begining to think that you just like to debate the opposite and your advice itsnt really all that serious. .......I wish I could be there when a potential customer askes you what your rate is and you tell them 500 per hour.

And on another note I dont consider myself a resi guy I go were the work is resi. commercial, industrial, I do it all. Yea I still have alot to learn about pricing but please go to a mirror and say 500$ per hour to yourself and if you dont break out in laughter than your just plain nuts. I dont even think that law firms and doctors charge that much. Oh and I could still run my busness at 2250 a week.

 

[petersonra]

There are certain things I do that I have a good amount of experience in. For those things I find a marketable price to sell by the piece. Recessed lights are a good example. Guys in my area get between $100-$200 each depending on whether or not we're supplying the materials and what kind of ceiling we're dealing with. I charge $100 each to install recessed lights supplied by the customer regardless of what brand/style I'm dealing with. When purchasing and installing your basic 5" or 6" cans I charge $150.

When it comes to doing things I'm not completely familiar with I charge by the hour. I usually try to charge $75 an hour nowadays, but I only charge $50 to the guys that I've known since I got my license (Late 2002). I might not make market price on the task at hand, but learning new stuff is worth the money I don't make.

Is this an acceptable way to operate as a single proprietor electrician?

It's late, so I won't get a chance to read responses until tomorrow. I apologize in advance if I'm not available to answer follow-up questions soon enough.

Its acceptable, but you may not be getting as much as you could.

 

[Tiger Electrical]

When it comes to doing things I'm not completely familiar with I charge by the hour. I usually try to charge $75 an hour nowadays, but I only charge $50 to the guys that I've known since I got my license (Late 2002). I might not make market price on the task at hand, but learning new stuff is worth the money I don't make.

This sounds like on-the-job-training. Since he has no experience his actual rate might be $150/hour if he were more productive. I suppose hourly can be a profitable way to go if you're very SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.

Dave

 

[petersonra]

I wish there was a way to educate all the EC's on sales and raise the rates overall.

What you are suggesting is very close to price fixing, and it is illegal.

You are seeing the free market at work. Some people do very well, others don't. Those that do badly enough find another line of work.

If the grocery stores decided to "educate" each other about raising prices, I bet you would not like it one bit.

 

[emahler]

<P></P>
<P>You really make no sense. In one post you are making fun of the guy who is charging 500 an hour and then you somehow know what I am billing every week and you bust my chops about what I am charging. So let me get this straight lets say he does a service change and it takes him 20 hours according to one of your previous post's on how long a service change takes ,let me see........that would make it 10000 dollars for a service change. Boy I bet youll be raking in the customers. And what do you do with your help when you are busy watching Judge Mathis? Or do you plan on working alone your whole carrer? Emaler im begining to think that you just like to debate the opposite and your advice itsnt really all that serious. .......I wish I could be there when a potential customer askes you what your rate is and you tell them 500 per hour.

And on another note I dont consider myself a resi guy I go were the work is resi. commercial, industrial, I do it all. Yea I still have alot to learn about pricing but please go to a mirror and say 500$ per hour to yourself and if you dont break out in laughter than your just plain nuts. I dont even think that law firms and doctors charge that much. Oh and I could still run my busness at 2250 a week.

where did I make fun of someone for billing $500/hr? legally and legitimately?

hell, i wish i was at that level...tony, understand the difference between hour and billable hour..a service upgrade from initial phone call, to estimate, to scheduling, ordering material, dealing with POCO, doing the actual installation, meeting with the inspector for inspection, any cleanup and/or punchlist work,etc...that can take you 15 to 20 man hours easily...

billable hours is the 8 hours that you and the apprentice are on site...so if you get $300/billable hour (or $150/billable man hour)...you are getting $2400 labor for the service. This gives you a rate of $2400 / 22 = $110/hr for every hour you spent on that project...

if you figure a job at $90/hr billable, and it takes you 16 billable man hours and another 6 unbillable hours...then you earn $1440 labor / 22 man hours = $65/hr....

tony, i am a contrarian by nature...i also will rub many people the wrong way...but the main reason we no longer do residential service work? i'm not a kindergarten teacher.....y'all are adults...business owners...it's your money....

i'm not giving any secrets out...i'm not even giving all the information out...my hope is a guy like yourself will get to thinking, then put in the time and effort to educate yourself completely...read people like Frank Blau, Ellen Rohr, Randall Hilton, Al Levi (never heard of them?) and get all the information. It doesn't happen overnight and it's not easy...but for the contractors who do educate themselves, the rewards are infinite...

so tony, i ask you this....you can get angry, resentful, defensive, etc and disregard anything I say...and guess what? doesn't matter one bit to me anymore...but you will be in the same position as 80% of the contractors out there....OR...you can start reading the people I listed, educate yourself in the things that you were never taught, and become part of the 20%....

if I offend you...i truly apologize...but ask yourself why you are really offended?

 

[emahler]

What you are suggesting is very close to price fixing, and it is illegal.

You are seeing the free market at work. Some people do very well, others don't. Those that do badly enough find another line of work.

If the grocery stores decided to "educate" each other about raising prices, I bet you would not like it one bit.

It's not quite price fixing...however, mandating that contractors actually be educated in learning their costs, you would find that most contractors are sorely underpriced...which apparently is illegal in some jurisdictions...

but I ask one question...if the government mandates "Prevailing wages" why is it different if contractors mandate "Prevailing Wages"?

 

[Rewire]

read people like Frank Blau, Ellen Rohr, Randall Hilton, Al Levi (never heard of them?)

sQUOTE]
You forgot Gordon Ramsay

 

[emahler]

read people like Frank Blau, Ellen Rohr, Randall Hilton, Al Levi (never heard of them?)

sQUOTE]
You forgot Gordon Ramsay

i don't know if you are being serious or not...but I like Gordon...and I think he knows his stuff (apparently the 4 letter s word isn't automatically sensored)....i think he could run a better electrical contracting company than most current electrical contractors...

 

[Rewire]

i don't know if you are being serious or not...but I like Gordon...and I think he knows his stuff (apparently the 4 letter s word isn't automatically sensored)....i think he could run a better electrical contracting company than most current electrical contractors...

I like his show Kitchen nightmares.The concept of a successful business translates nomatter what the business.

 

[emahler]

I like his show Kitchen nightmares.The concept of a successful business translates nomatter what the business.

that"s the truth...business concepts are universal...in our industry, you need trade knowledge to be safe and legal...you need business knowledge to make money...

 

[Tiger Electrical]

<P></P>
<P>You really make no sense. In one post you are making fun of the guy who is charging 500 an hour and then you somehow know what I am billing every week and you bust my chops about what I am charging. So let me get this straight lets say he does a service change and it takes him 20 hours according to one of your previous post's on how long a service change takes ,let me see........that would make it 10000 dollars for a service change. Boy I bet youll be raking in the customers. And what do you do with your help when you are busy watching Judge Mathis? Or do you plan on working alone your whole carrer? Emaler im begining to think that you just like to debate the opposite and your advice itsnt really all that serious. .......I wish I could be there when a potential customer askes you what your rate is and you tell them 500 per hour.

And on another note I dont consider myself a resi guy I go were the work is resi. commercial, industrial, I do it all. Yea I still have alot to learn about pricing but please go to a mirror and say 500$ per hour to yourself and if you dont break out in laughter than your just plain nuts. I dont even think that law firms and doctors charge that much. Oh and I could still run my busness at 2250 a week.

The $500/hour wasn't a serious post. The $300/hour is a serious post. There are ECs around the country using a good business model at $300/hour in residential service (50% production=$150/hour including non-productive time). They pay Journeyman wages with full benefits and have money in the bank when they need another vehicle. They are also getting $4-6000 every day on service upgrades. Their techs have less experience than many one-man operations charging less.

I've had a starvation business and a profitable business. In large part I have two guys from New Jersey and one in Massachusetts to thank for the change. The two new Jersey guys are Satcom & Mahlere. I'd include Celtic, but he's very sardonic.

Dave

 

[mdshunk]

I guess I only have one thing to add....

If you're busy, that's how you know you need to raise your rates.

 

[satcom]

What you are suggesting is very close to price fixing, and it is illegal.

You are seeing the free market at work. Some people do very well, others don't. Those that do badly enough find another line of work.

If the grocery stores decided to "educate" each other about raising prices, I bet you would not like it one bit.

Bob is right, price fixing is illegal, and you can't fix prices unless your a phone company, cell company, or some large manufacturing operation, that lobbying for special treatment.

Just look at the food, and energy markets, it's price adjustments, not price fixing.