Pulling permits and inspectors

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satcom said:
If you do the work you're on the hook anyway. A permit doesn't spread any liability around to the town.
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I think your missing the issue here, it has nothing to do with sharing liability, by not obtaining a permit, the insurer that underwrites a homeowner, requires any construction work to meet all codes, and comply with, any building regulations, each policy has it's own wording to this effect, read any homeowners policy, and you will see how they protect their interest.
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My understanding of the way this works is that work not done to code (which if a permit is required would include unpermitted work) is grounds to cancel a policy but not to deny a claim.
 
satcom said:
If you do the work you're on the hook anyway. A permit doesn't spread any liability around to the town.
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I think your missing the issue here, it has nothing to do with sharing liability, by not obtaining a permit, the insurer that underwrites a homeowner, requires any construction work to meet all codes, and comply with, any building regulations, each policy has it's own wording to this effect, read any homeowners policy, and you will see how they protect their interest.
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A permit from the town doesn't mean any electrical work was done to code unless the town hires its own electrical inspectors. There's about a half dozen inspection agencies I could call for an inspection in upstate NY. Very few rural places hire their own inspectors
 
You can have any approved agency, inspect the work, goverment agency or a private inspection company, in most rural areas private inspection companies usually do the work.

The main purpose of permits and inspections, is to make sure the work meets code requirements, the insurance underwriters, when determining insurance rates, rate a community on many things, are there fire hydrants installed, how far is the fire department, from the insured structure, does the city or town have building codes adopted, and are they enforced, so when an insurer issues you a policy, it is a contract, they must honor their part and pay claims, and you must honor your part and obtain permits and inspections when required.

Areas that do not have codes adopted, usually pay a higher insurance rate for protection, and there are areas, that do not adopt codes, and do not have enforcement.
 
So by what mechanism, precisely, does a permit guarantee anything (over a non-permit job) if the job is inspected and the town codes office is sent the inspection report?

I'm having a real hard time understanding your position. Taken to its logical conclusion, Home Depot, Lowes, etc shouldn't be in business selling to the public.
 
tonyi said:
So by what mechanism, precisely, does a permit guarantee anything (over a non-permit job) if the job is inspected and the town codes office is sent the inspection report?

I'm having a real hard time understanding your position. Taken to its logical conclusion, Home Depot, Lowes, etc shouldn't be in business selling to the public.
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I LOVE IT! :D
Maybe we should solicit an answer from HD or Lowes?
 
tonyi said:
NJ is weird...only state I've ever been in where you can't pump your own gas.
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:lol: :lol:
I got yelled at about 20 years ago. Up from Va. (at that time) visiting people in NJ. Got out of my car, picked up the nozzle, started pumping. Man came running out of the store yelling at me.
 
hardworkingstiff said:
tonyi said:
NJ is weird...only state I've ever been in where you can't pump your own gas.
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:lol: :lol:
I got yelled at about 20 years ago. Up from Va. (at that time) visiting people in NJ. Got out of my car, picked up the nozzle, started pumping. Man came running out of the store yelling at me.
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I remember 20 or 30 years ago when IL started allowing people to pump their own gas. The gas station owners had all kinds of dire predictions. Now there are even gas stations without an attendant at all. None of the dire predictions came true.
 
We have heard from many EC'c but only one inspector. Are there any other inspectors out there that would like to comment on the inspection process or lack there of?
 
In NY State, there are jurisdictions that require licensing, and jurisdictions that do not require licensing, some next to each other. A permit for electrical is required by some and not by others.
This starts the process as being screwed up from the beginning.

In the jurisdictions that require a license and permit, Home Depot does sell to the home owner - and that is fine as long as the home owner does not install his/her own electrical work. This is a free country, and if the homeowner wants to try and save some money buying their own supplies and the contractor agrees to it, so be it. When I say the contractor agrees to it, not all contractors will perform work, when the supplies are from Home Depot, so the customer will look for a contractor who does not care.

The insurance companies feel that work that is permitted and inspected, whether the work was performed by a licensed contractor or other individual has a better chance of being less of a potential claim for them. They like the permit/inspection process very much.

A little history:
The New York Board of Fire Underwriters (NY State located inspection company, Delaware incorporated) is a private electrical inspection company. This company is the first (hence the oldest) electrical inspection company in the country. It was started and incorporated by insurance companies. It is still owned by approximately 90 some odd insurance companies.

An insurance company owning the largest electrical inspection company in the state, and the oldest, I think that says a lot.

In NY State, it depends on the policy the homeowner has, some will cover unpermitted work, and some will not.
I have been in contact with a prominent individual in the NY State insurance group, and he tells me there is a large movement within the insurance industry to stop all payments to claims that do not have an inspection process, within about 2 years... this should be interesting to see how they do this. He tells me the precedent has already been set, as some companies within NY are already doing this. He advises customers to read their policies or call their agent to find out what their own policies cover/don't cover.
 
Also,

I do drtive 56 in a 55. I would not pursue an EC for installing a light fixture without a permit. If the situation is presented to me, my response will be that a permit is required.
 
tonyi said:
NJ is weird...
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..and we are damn proud of that!

http://weirdnj.com/
issue24.jpg
 
He tells me the precedent has already been set, as some companies within NY are already doing this. He advises customers to read their policies or call their agent to find out what their own policies cover/don't cover.
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Pierre,

This is why obtaining permits, and inspections, where required, is important, if any of your customers, are insured with one of these companies that inforces their contract, then the contractor is putting the customer in a bad position, by not getting permits or have inspections where required, and the result may be the homeowner passing on the liability to the contractor should anything go wrong.


Thank you for explaining it in more depth, my last try ended up with some comments, that i could not make any sense of, with over 35 years in this business, we have see some pretty bad situations where, the homeowner, was left high and dry, because, they did not follow their insurance contract provisions.

We pull permits and have inspections on all jobs, some inspections are done by a city agency, and some, by private inspection companies, we have both here in New Jersey, we do not want, the extended liability, that goes with no permitting, or inspecting a job, would expose us to.
 
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