push in connectors reliable ?

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paulengr said:
There is one motor company still making them this way. TONS of comm failures. I’d name names but I can’t remember which one.
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I'm talking stator wires. I can't see how this would be a failure point.

Silver solder connection has the strength of the original copper according to the American Welding Society, well, they are talking brazed joints, what we commoners call silver or hard soldering.
 
paulengr said:
Easier to put them ON a bolt with ring lugs you mean?
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You’ve never seen a split bolt connector??? Wires all go through the bolt & are squeezed together as you tighten the nut. Ring terminals in a bolt are good too but require more material & more steps.
 
romex jockey said:
i for one appreciate the time and effort of my craft that i've been involved with since the Carter administration , and do not credit manufacturers for making anything about it better

~S~
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I often agree but I must speak up for Arlington. They produce some excellent products. Their Inbox is the best way to install outdoor receptacles and same with their post receptacle. Their LFNM connectors are the best & easiest to use.
 
jmellc said:
I often agree but I must speak up for Arlington. They produce some excellent products. Their Inbox is the best way to install outdoor receptacles and same with their post receptacle. Their LFNM connectors are the best & easiest to use.
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and while i'll agree Arlington has manufactured some grand products , i'll also add any level of product review is not available in our trade rags jmellc , they're no more than cheerleaders . One has to solicit the opinions of our fellow tradesfolk in the field ~RJ~
 
romex jockey said:
and while i'll agree Arlington has manufactured some grand products , i'll also add any level of product review is not available in our trade rags jmellc , they're no more than cheerleaders . One has to solicit the opinions of our fellow tradesfolk in the field ~RJ~
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Hence, one of the benefits of this forum. I’ve learned a lot here & hopefully been of some help to others.
 
jmellc said:
You’ve never seen a split bolt connector??? Wires all go through the bolt & are squeezed together as you tighten the nut. Ring terminals in a bolt are good too but require more material & more steps.
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You’ve never seen a split bolt failure? I can’t tell you how many huge messes in troughs let alone burned up motor leads I’ve seen caused by split bolts. Medium size plants have been shut down for days because of failures. Motor shops ban their techs from using them.

So how do you torque one to spec? Once torqued how do you maintain it? It’s impossible. The strands also get caught in the threads and are notorious for loose connections. Plus over time they bow out or undo themselves and loosen up. Its maybe OK as a temporary but any permanent installs I’ve seen eventually fail. Half the time I can remove an old split bolt by turning it by hand, no tools. That’s how worthless these things are. So whether it’s Code or not to put far too small gauge wires in one even with the proper sizes I’d rather see wire nuts which if properly installed actually hold up over time over split bolts. I can’t believe UL actually passes them. Should have been delisted years ago because they don’t stay tight. And to think OP is worried about a constant force spring holding.
 
paulengr said:
You’ve never seen a split bolt failure? I can’t tell you how many huge messes in troughs let alone burned up motor leads I’ve seen caused by split bolts. Medium size plants have been shut down for days because of failures. Motor shops ban their techs from using them.

So how do you torque one to spec? Once torqued how do you maintain it? It’s impossible. The strands also get caught in the threads and are notorious for loose connections. Plus over time they bow out or undo themselves and loosen up. Its maybe OK as a temporary but any permanent installs I’ve seen eventually fail. Half the time I can remove an old split bolt by turning it by hand, no tools. That’s how worthless these things are. So whether it’s Code or not to put far too small gauge wires in one even with the proper sizes I’d rather see wire nuts which if properly installed actually hold up over time over split bolts. I can’t believe UL actually passes them. Should have been delisted years ago because they don’t stay tight. And to think OP is worried about a constant force spring holding.
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The things you mention such as strands in the threads are examples of poor workmanship.
The facility where I was a plant engineer from 1979 thru 1982 used split bolts to wire all but fractional HP motors, hundreds of them. I never saw a single failure. We did have very good electricians, though.
 
paulengr said:
You’ve never seen a split bolt failure? I can’t tell you how many huge messes in troughs let alone burned up motor leads I’ve seen caused by split bolts. Medium size plants have been shut down for days because of failures. Motor shops ban their techs from using them.

So how do you torque one to spec? Once torqued how do you maintain it? It’s impossible. The strands also get caught in the threads and are notorious for loose connections. Plus over time they bow out or undo themselves and loosen up. Its maybe OK as a temporary but any permanent installs I’ve seen eventually fail. Half the time I can remove an old split bolt by turning it by hand, no tools. That’s how worthless these things are. So whether it’s Code or not to put far too small gauge wires in one even with the proper sizes I’d rather see wire nuts which if properly installed actually hold up over time over split bolts. I can’t believe UL actually passes them. Should have been delisted years ago because they don’t stay tight. And to think OP is worried about a constant force spring holding.
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I seldom if ever seen a split bolt fail on copper conductors. Can't say that for aluminum conductors though (even with split bolt rated for aluminum conductors), and especially improper copper to aluminum connections.
 
paulengr said:
You’ve never seen a split bolt failure? I can’t tell you how many huge messes in troughs let alone burned up motor leads I’ve seen caused by split bolts. Medium size plants have been shut down for days because of failures. Motor shops ban their techs from using them.

So how do you torque one to spec? Once torqued how do you maintain it? It’s impossible. The strands also get caught in the threads and are notorious for loose connections. Plus over time they bow out or undo themselves and loosen up. Its maybe OK as a temporary but any permanent installs I’ve seen eventually fail. Half the time I can remove an old split bolt by turning it by hand, no tools. That’s how worthless these things are. So whether it’s Code or not to put far too small gauge wires in one even with the proper sizes I’d rather see wire nuts which if properly installed actually hold up over time over split bolts. I can’t believe UL actually passes them. Should have been delisted years ago because they don’t stay tight. And to think OP is worried about a constant force spring holding.
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I have rarely seen split bolts fail. If you saw that many, someone did poor work.
 
romex jockey said:
and while i'll agree Arlington has manufactured some grand products , i'll also add any level of product review is not available in our trade rags jmellc , they're no more than cheerleaders . One has to solicit the opinions of our fellow tradesfolk in the field ~RJ~
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Often true. My experience with Arlington has always been good. But just to look at an ad for their product is to see that they are thinking and creating. When I saw an ad for an Inbox, I had been wishing for something like it but no one had it before. I called their office once to tell about a combo electrical/LV data box of theirs, had a few minor issues. The operator apologized that no techs were there but wanted my observations, said their people always appreciated feedback from the field. Is that a good attitude or what? :D
 
Stevenfyeager said:
Are push in connectors as reliable and stable as wire nuts ? I always twist the wires too. I have a new employee who likes using the push in, but I have expressed doubt in them.
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IMHO in most instances the difference is between night and day. If you don't want to have to lay awake at night second guessing your splices ditch the push-ins. After years of twisting wirenuts onto splices I stumbled upon the 3M WCD-P Power Driver and it has made my splices tighter with added benefits of quicker installation time plus less strain on the hand and wrist.

 
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