Pvc glue

[ohmhead]

Well there has been some heated discussions on one post that was about UL listings of products and instructions by manufactures which come with products .

We all use pvc glue everyday and i know that what iam about to tell you is not what you may use its just not cost effective yet but this is the best pvc glue every made .

Heres why when you use this gorilla glue it expands two to fours times its application thickness when applied it fills the voids it bonds and expands .
when water hits gorilla glue it expands and its in the instructions on can you add water drops to its mix to make it work so water would be a benefit .

I know they make underwater glue for conduits but its very expensive but it doesnt expand to seal its just for bonding purposes.


Now if the company that makes this product could reduce the cost we would not have water ever in any pvc conduit underground which is a problem in deep underground work in leaking couplings and such .

I have actually use this and can say you can put lots of water pressure on conduit and it will not leak so your underground work would be free of just common water entering in pvc thur a weak coupling or say around such installs .



Take care

 

[TOOL_5150]

You dont honestly think "leaky couplings" is the main reason for water in underground conduits, do you?

~Matt

 

[ohmhead]

You dont honestly think "leaky couplings" is the main reason for water in underground conduits, do you?

~Matt

Well i know it is

 

[ultramegabob]

leaking fittings "may" be a source of water in an underground conduit, but I think more often it is warm air being drawn into the conduit then cooling when underground and the moisture in the air condensing, over time water builds up. If you really wanted to keep the water out, you would need to make them air tight above ground also.

 

[nakulak]

When I worked as a plumber, the inspectors in some areas would not allow us to use super blue dope particularly on gas fittings. The reason was, that the over application of that particular thread sealant had been known to crack fittings (it expands slightly). I don't know anything about this pvc glue, but I am curious for the above reason.

 

[ohmhead]

When I worked as a plumber, the inspectors in some areas would not allow us to use super blue dope particularly on gas fittings. The reason was, that the over application of that particular thread sealant had been known to crack fittings (it expands slightly). I don't know anything about this pvc glue, but I am curious for the above reason.

Its made for pvc conduit by gorilla its on the can pvc glue we have use it on pvc its great stuff just to high priced just thought some one in the trade might be interested in some extreme work were water is present .

In florida we just dont have leaks we have streams underground sinkholes its just not a good place to do underground class c soil sand clay its not stable so couplings can move so if you have a better glue seal go for it .

 

[iwire]

You dont honestly think "leaky couplings" is the main reason for water in underground conduits, do you?

~Matt

Well i know it is

And I believe you are mistaken.

 

[ohmhead]

And I believe you are mistaken.

Well i know iam not mistaken would you like proof ?

That seems to be the correct way to do it these days

 

[winnie]

I would bet that leaks in the conduit are a frequent source of water in an underground conduit, but not the _only_ source.

If you use an adhesive that perfectly seals up all of the joints, then you will still have a reasonable chance that water will collect in the conduit. You will still need to use water rated conductors, and you will still need to make arrangements for draining.

-Jon

 

[iwire]

Well i know iam not mistaken would you like proof ?

That seems to be the correct way to do it these days

Yes, I would like more than you saying something is a fact before I treat it as fact. Nothing personal.

 

[kwired]

what is the difference between glue used for pvc water pipe and pvc conduit?
plumbers use cleaners and primers before glueing especially on a pipe that will be pressurized. plus their fittings probably have better quality control as far as fitting tight. I have seen many electrical pvc fittings that are almost impossible to cement together and have a strong bond because they do not "dry fit" very tight.

I don't claim to be a plumber but have done some plumbing mostly for myself and have used cleaner, primer and electrical grade pvc glue on pressurized pipe and it has not leaked after several years.

 

[ohmhead]

Well florida springs there everywhere under us from one job to the next the volume of water flowing from a spring beneath the surface has pressure its a fact .
We have the largest by volume in the world thats a fact .
groundwater is forced up by this pressure and onto the surface through any openings .

Its our duct banks which create a opening of path for flow this is called hydralic gradient in the aquifer system meaning this water has only one place to go up by pressure .

This water flow is extreme around our conduits and if there in earth not encased its a issue .

North & central florida is the worst sinkholes are common and once we came back to work one day and one of our concrete bases to a lite pole was completely gone sunk out of sight! fact it happens

Water is at pressure from these springs and constant water pressure on pvc conduit it will fill it up this is a problem on large projects .

We can blow it out one day and come back the next day and its back now this is for long runs underground duct banks were not talk one or two conduits and a depths of 8 foot to accomadate other banks of conduits entering rooms on projects .

 

[wireguru]

water causes the gorilla glue to expand while its curing. Once its cured the presence of water doesnt make it expand more...

 

[ohmhead]

water causes the gorilla glue to expand while its curing. Once its cured the presence of water doesnt make it expand more...

Well yes i agree after it dries its done but it would fill up a void or bad spot as pvc conduit its not that perfect. This might just stop water from entering dont ya think . But spray a little water on that pipe and it would expand fill up the void ya and if it was wet it wouldt matter . pvc glue doesnt expand

If you run 4" or 6 " master bundles of 4"& 6" inch each day you would see that a batch of conduit from shipment to shipment are not the same .

We run so much conduit in a week that we have found some conduits that we could not glue together they were of different od same brand .

Heres another we have found conduit which the whole master bundle of many meaning a truck load the bells were 1/4 larger then pipe od which meant glue wasnt going to help .

But what i love the best is the oval or flat ends by factory there fun .

Then you get to trash it labor lost .


Our company runs lots of pipe each day !

 

[PetrosA]

I have to agree that much of the schedule 40 gray PVC I've seen has ridiculously bad tolerances. The couplings and termads usually fit nicely, but bell ends can be a waste of time. Add to that glue that's not really glue but "welder" (it weakens and dissolves the PVC until, theoretically, a bond is made) and you have a recipe for leaks if the bell ends are even slightly out of tolerance because the glue shrinks as it dries. Gooping on extra glue to help fill the gaps will only make matters worse since the gases from the glue will weaken the surrounding pipe even more. Glued bell end joints are extremely fragile in comparison to unglued PVC.

One thing I'm convinced causes leaking is improper "working" of the glue joint. I've seen guys slop some glue on, push the pipes together and leave. That's going to create a weak and (probably) leaky joint. Because the glue works by dissolving the PVC and creating a suspension of PVC particles between the two surfaces, it's important to move the joint enough so that the glue can pick up the particles it needs to create the suspension. I work the joint back and forth about 1/8th of a turn until it stops moving and wipe off excess glue to prevent weakening of the pipe. So far my pipe runs have been dry when I go to pull.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

I've heard guys SWEAR that if you primer first,,,,then glue, the pipe will stay dry!! I can't belive anybody actually belives that bolony. The water in the pipe is condensation. ALL UNDERGROUND CONDUIT is wet. The outside of the couduit remains at a constant temperature, while the air inside the conduit is constantly changing temperature and is full of humid air. I promise you, this glue will do nothing but waste your money.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

Next time try the glue and seal your pvc after it emerges from the ground with duck seal or chaulk. This is even cheaper than the glue.

 

[LJSMITH1]

I have to agree that much of the schedule 40 gray PVC I've seen has ridiculously bad tolerances. The couplings and termads usually fit nicely, but bell ends can be a waste of time. Add to that glue that's not really glue but "welder" (it weakens and dissolves the PVC until, theoretically, a bond is made) and you have a recipe for leaks if the bell ends are even slightly out of tolerance because the glue shrinks as it dries. Gooping on extra glue to help fill the gaps will only make matters worse since the gases from the glue will weaken the surrounding pipe even more. Glued bell end joints are extremely fragile in comparison to unglued PVC.

One thing I'm convinced causes leaking is improper "working" of the glue joint. I've seen guys slop some glue on, push the pipes together and leave. That's going to create a weak and (probably) leaky joint. Because the glue works by dissolving the PVC and creating a suspension of PVC particles between the two surfaces, it's important to move the joint enough so that the glue can pick up the particles it needs to create the suspension. I work the joint back and forth about 1/8th of a turn until it stops moving and wipe off excess glue to prevent weakening of the pipe. So far my pipe runs have been dry when I go to pull.

I concur. Good post.

 

[peter d]

This issue of keeping underground conduits dry comes up on occasion. I'll concur with the others who have said this is a pointless exercise. The NEC knows and understands that these are wet locations and requires them to be wired as such. That being the case, if they are required to be treated as wet locations anyway, why go to the trouble to keep them dry? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[btharmy]

Had an engineer on a job yell at me from the edge of the trench that I wasn't priming my "pipes" before gluing them. A little background, this is a duct bank with 4 - sch40 pvc for utility power in a loop around a new hospital. There was 1 switchgear pit and 6 - 3'x4'x4'deep pull boxes 400ft apart. His concern was that the conduits "must remain dry inside". I talked to him for probably 1/2hr and still don't know if he ever got it through his head. The ends of every run are going to be located about 3' below grade. The conduits WILL be full of water most of the time, if not all the time. He wasn't very happy................He wasn't very smart either.