QO Plug-on Neutral CAFCI/GFCI Circuit Breakers

busman

busman

Senior Member
Location
Northern Virginia
Occupation
Master Electrician / Electrical Engineer
Per the subject, is it just me, or are these impossible to find lately (either online or locally)? I'm finishing out my monster garage and need about 25 of these to get completed. I installed a couple of pigtail versions I had around, just to get a few circuits up and running.

Thanks for any info.

Mark
 
eBay has them for half retail

This guy has (3) 10-packs of 15s...

www.ebay.com

LOT OF 10 Square D QO115PAFGF 15 Amp 1 Pole Dual Function NEW FAST SHIPPING📦✅ | eBay

<p>Upgrade your electrical equipment with this set of 10 Square D QO115PAFGF circuit breakers. These main breakers are suitable for wall, interior, and exterior installation and have a maximum amperage of 15A with a current rating of 1-15A. The plug-on neutral feature, thermal overload...
www.ebay.com

He also has (4) 10-packs of 20s

www.ebay.com

Lot Of 10 Square D QO120PAFGF 20 Amp Single Pole Plug-On AFCI/GFCI Dual Funct 785901779278 | eBay

<p>This lot of 10 Square D QO120PAFGF circuit breakers is a great choice for anyone in need of reliable and high-quality electrical equipment. These plug-on circuit breakers are suitable for wall mounting and have a maximum amperage of 20A, with a voltage of 120V.</p><br /><p>The circuit...
www.ebay.com
 
busman said:
Per the subject, is it just me, or are these impossible to find lately (either online or locally)? I'm finishing out my monster garage and need about 25 of these to get completed. I installed a couple of pigtail versions I had around, just to get a few circuits up and running.

Thanks for any info.

Mark
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Wondering why you are putting AFCI in a garage?
 
Little Bill said:
Still wouldn't require AFCI.
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Thanks all for the help. Most of these circuits will require GFCI and given that GFCI or AFCI are about the same cost and knowing that they'll get there soon on "all 120V residential circuits", I decided to just install them now. Maybe keep the HI off my a$$ at sell time. You can be sure they'll get swapped if I have any nuisance tripping Code or No Code. I may also be crazy.

Mark
 
In Atlanta, the smash and grab artists have garbage cans full of them! That’s why Home Depot started locking them up. They would empty the shelf’s into garbage cans, and walk out the door with them.
 
hillbilly1 said:
In Atlanta, the smash and grab artists have garbage cans full of them! That’s why Home Depot started locking them up. They would empty the shelf’s into garbage cans, and walk out the door with them.
Click to expand...
Same here with wire. Except they were buying toilets. They would fill the box the toilet came in with wire. sometimes even set the toilet in the shelf and use the whole box to hold more wire.
 
Little Bill said:
You're almost guaranteed to have trips with woodworking tools. Especially anything like a chop saw, skill saw, drill, etc.
Click to expand...

I had to put a QO hi-mag breaker on the circuit that runs my Milwaukee chop saw. I have a lot of big power tools and that saw was the only one that caused problems.
 
retirede said:
I had to put a QO hi-mag breaker on the circuit that runs my Milwaukee chop saw. I have a lot of big power tools and that saw was the only one that caused problems.
Click to expand...

Several times when I had a service release on a new house (limited power to complete house build) I would get a call saying breakers keep tripping. 100% of the time, it was a trim carpenter using a miter/chop saw, or shop vac. I told them to plug into the garage circuit or bath, as those don't have AFCI.
 
Little Bill said:
Several times when I had a service release on a new house (limited power to complete house build) I would get a call saying breakers keep tripping. 100% of the time, it was a trim carpenter using a miter/chop saw, or shop vac. I told them to plug into the garage circuit or bath, as those don't have AFCI.
Click to expand...
I agree. Universal motors are usually the problem. You can see the sparks if you run them in the dark.

Mark
 
busman said:
I agree. Universal motors are usually the problem. You can see the sparks if you run them in the dark.

Mark
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Incorrect. Universal motors and AFCIs get along just fine. It's the electronics in new power tools that cause the AFCI to nuisance trip.

AFCIs don't trip on arcs. They trip on a waveform the tiny brain in them thinks is an arc, and that turns out to be anything other than a legit arc. They are a fraud.
 
ActionDave said:
Incorrect. Universal motors and AFCIs get along just fine. It's the electronics in new power tools that cause the AFCI to nuisance trip.

AFCIs don't trip on arcs. They trip on a waveform the tiny brain in them thinks is an arc, and that turns out to be anything other than a legit arc. They are a fraud.
Click to expand...
Unless the arcs that are being artificially generated by this test setup are not representative of real world loose connection arcs, I believe there is some scientific substantiation that AFCI's can operate as designed. With that said, I'm not at all convinced that they are great; they probably miss a large number of arc types and declare things that are not arc to be such.


Mark
 
For the rest, I took your always good advice to heart. I hooked up the 4 lighting circuits and the panel receptacle on the AFCI's that I got a bargain on and ordered 18 GFCI for all the rest of the receptacles.

Thanks for the thoughts,

Mark
 
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