Qualified Person should be redefined

[joe tedesco]

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of electrical equipment and installations, and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved. In addition, one who is authorized to test, energize, clear, ground, tag, and lockout circuits and equipment in accordance with established safety practices. Trained in the proper care and use of protective equipment, such as rubber gloves, hard hat, safety glasses or face shields, and flash resistant clothing, in accordance with established safety practices in accordance with NFPA 70E?, Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace.

Brings some of 70E and NEMA AB-4 into the NEC
​

 

[mdshunk]

I'm unqualified to provide comments on this proposal. :smile:

 

[charlie b]

So am I. But I am qualified to observe that the final sentence is missing a verb.

 

[jim dungar]

In addition, one who is authorized to test, energize, clear, ground, tag, and lockout circuits and equipment in accordance with established safety practices.​

Who does the "authorization"?

Just because I am authorized to perform most of these tasks by my employer does not mean that I am authorized to perform any of them in some work environments (i.e. subject to collective bargaining). And I am not authorized by my employer to energize circuits, so I guess I need to find another line of work.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

It is my opinion that safe work practices and rules related to such are outside the scope of the NEC. They should remain in the OSHA documents and other documents like 70E. The NEC should remain a document that specifies how electrical systems are to be installed.

 

[brian john]

We lose way to many electricians if that is ever passed and was enforced. OF COURSE NOT ANYONE ON THIS FORUM.

Without trying to sound big headed I am dead serious.

 

[wbalsam1]

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of electrical equipment and installations, and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved. In addition, one who is authorized to test, energize, clear, ground, tag, and lockout circuits and equipment in accordance with established safety practices. Trained in the proper care and use of protective equipment, such as rubber gloves, hard hat, safety glasses or face shields, and flash resistant clothing, in accordance with established safety practices in accordance with NFPA 70E?, Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace.

Brings some of 70E and NEMA AB-4 into the NEC



​

Here's my rough draft: :smile:

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of electrical equipment and installations, having received safety training sufficient to demonstrate the ability to recognize and avoid hazards involved, who is authorized to test, energize, clear, ground, tag, and lockout circuits and equipment in accordance with established safety practices and possesses training in the proper care and use of protective equipment, such as rubber gloves, hard hat, safety glasses or face shields, and flash-resistant clothing, in conformity with established safety practices referenced in NFPA 70E?, Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace as adopted by the AHJ.

 

[mdshunk]

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of electrical equipment and installations, having received safety training sufficient to demonstrate the ability to recognize and avoid hazards involved, who is authorized to test, energize, clear, ground, tag, and lockout circuits and equipment in accordance with established safety practices and possesses training in the proper care and use of protective equipment, such as rubber gloves, hard hat, safety glasses or face shields, and flash-resistant clothing, in conformity with established safety practices referenced in NFPA 70E?, Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace as adopted by the AHJ.

I would substitute the following phrase for the red text:

"...who has the demonstrated ability to safely..."

 

[wbalsam1]

I would substitute the following phrase for the red text:

"...who has the demonstrated ability to safely..."

Here we go:

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of electrical equipment and installations, having received adequate safety training to recognize and avoid hazards involved, who has the demonstrated ability to safely test, energize, clear, ground, tag, and lockout circuits and equipment in accordance with established safety practices and possesses training in the proper care and use of protective equipment, such as rubber gloves, hard hat, safety glasses or face shields, and flash-resistant clothing, in conformity with established safety practices referenced in NFPA 70E?, Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace as adopted by the AHJ.

 

[480sparky]

I would substitute the following phrase for the red text:

"...who has the demonstrated ability to safely..."

The $64,000 question: To whom?

 

[brantmacga]

It is my opinion that safe work practices and rules related to such are outside the scope of the NEC. They should remain in the OSHA documents and other documents like 70E. The NEC should remain a document that specifies how electrical systems are to be installed.

I agree w/ Don.

 

[ramsy]

We lose way to many electricians if that is ever passed and was enforced.

Yes, losing such electricians to other occupations would allow the BS artist to carry on elsewhere, before getting someone electrocuted or blown up.

The NEC differs to 70E & NEMA often enough, but not OSHA (except for NFPA 70 handbook). Lacking any pointers to OSHA does ignore the largest audience of practicing trades & ignorant operators with the greatest need for a reference to this authority.

 

[frizbeedog]

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of electrical equipment and installations, and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved. In addition, one who is authorized to test, energize, clear, ground, tag, and lockout circuits and equipment in accordance with established safety practices. Trained in the proper care and use of protective equipment, such as rubber gloves, hard hat, safety glasses or face shields, and flash resistant clothing, in accordance with established safety practices in accordance with NFPA 70E?, Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace.

Brings some of 70E and NEMA AB-4 into the NEC
​

Nothing wrong with the current language as I read it. Why bring 70E into it. The FPN already refers you where to go to find the information on safe work practices. Leave it alone. Your proposal does not make anything clearer.

Why joe?

 

[quogueelectric]

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of electrical equipment and installations, and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved. In addition, one who is authorized to test, energize, clear, ground, tag, and lockout circuits and equipment in accordance with established safety practices. Trained in the proper care and use of protective equipment, such as rubber gloves, hard hat, safety glasses or face shields, and flash resistant clothing, in accordance with established safety practices in accordance with NFPA 70E?, Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace.

Brings some of 70E and NEMA AB-4 into the NEC
​

It is here to stay.

 

[coulter]

Just my opinion, I think that the OP, whom I hold in the highest regard, has posted this message obviously exaggerating the topic, hoping to incit argument.

carl

 

[mdshunk]

The $64,000 question: To whom?

To whom demonstration is required. :wink:

 

[quogueelectric]

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of electrical equipment and installations, and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved. In addition, one who is authorized to test, energize, clear, ground, tag, and lockout circuits and equipment in accordance with established safety practices. Trained in the proper care and use of protective equipment, such as rubber gloves, hard hat, safety glasses or face shields, and flash resistant clothing, in accordance with established safety practices in accordance with NFPA 70E?, Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace.

Brings some of 70E and NEMA AB-4 into the NEC
​

I love the definition more of Unqualified person............ (A person who is not a qualified person.) How beautiful is that?????????????

 

[Minuteman]

Question: Has the purpose for defining a Qualified Person been so that property owners can use non electricians to perform maintenance on and around electrical equipment? :-?

 

[brian john]

Yes, losing such electricians to other occupations would allow the BS artist to carry on elsewhere, before getting someone electrocuted or blown up.

Based upon my experience I am not talking about the guys that claim they can do everything, I am talking about the averaged licensed electrician, energizing a 480/277 bolted pressure switch after a fault without clearing or locating the source of the GFP operation, energizing a new switchboard without testing it, closing a CB into a fault, working stuff hot without a clue as to how dangerous it really is, grounding neutrals downstream from the main service, putting 30 current carrying conductors in a 2" EMT without derating, drilling into a energized switchboard, pushing fish tapes into energized switchboards, not verifying phasing on an UPS install, bypass/wrap around bypass, installing 250 VAC equipment in 480/277 vac systems, not verifying testing parallel conductors and creating a bolted fault, energizing wet distribution equipment, AND BOOM GOES THE ELECTRICIAN.

And the list goes on and on.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

At this point, the only purpose for the definition of "qualified person" is to permit "exceptions" to the main rules for industrial installations.

industrial occupancies, where conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only [b[qualified persons[/b] service the installation

That wording appears in a number of code sections and is used as an exception even where the words do not appear in an exception. An example would be Part VIII of Article 240.