Question about piece work

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Duse said:
Like I said, This sounds great for the retards out there making 9.19$ that have no idea what 14/2 is, (jus that it is white) or how to wire up a 3way or 4way... While I'm an experienced electrician and making the same waes that these f&^%$tards are making..

This is turning into a complaining forum article and I applogize for it but I jus need to figure out what I'm gonna try and do here about this situation..
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Don't appoligize. We are here to help each other. If this project is covered by the DBA (it probably is) you are entitled to prevailing wages by law. That includes all hours you have already worked on this job. You also have to be paid OT for all hours worked over 40 in a week. I hope you have a rocord of your hours and how much you were paid. You may have to go to the US Department of Labor (DOL) to force the issue. I would start by finding out what the prevailing wage is for this project for an electrician. It is supposed to be posted on the job site. Try the GC's job trailer. See if you can get a copy of what is called the "Wage Decision".
 
Ok, here's my situation though, I am currently not a certified electrician or Journeyman, I will be shortly but as of now I am not, I am an apprentice, will the Prevailing Wages still apply to me as well as the rest of the crew at the site???
 
In defense here I can see why some people are on piece work. I am not taking your boss's side on this. We do a few houses. I think around 30 to 45 a year or something like that. I have to constantly push and drive employees to spped up. Houses are so cheap that the profit on a 1800 sq ft house in our area is about $600. An employee goes one day over and there goes the profit. I have heard of some other contractors here doing piece work, I don't know the results though. Sounds like your thing is on a government installation so I think, though I am no expert, that the Davis Bacon act applies. Good luck in your project !!
 
The only way you can work as an apprentice is if you are part of an apprenticeship program. If they have you doing journeyman work then you are to be paid as a journeyman.

This is to level the playing field for contractors. If they could then some contractors would send out all helpers. If they have to pay them as journeymen that puts a stop to that.
 
Duse...you might *consider* talking with these people:
[IBEW Local Union 1340]
7812 Warwick Blvd.
Newport News
VA 23607

(757) 245-7691

Not to start the great union/non-union debate, but, IMHO, I think you might be getting the short-end here.

I have been on many jobs where the guy working next to me didn't know which end of a bender was up - we still got paid the same. That leaves a man with 3 choices:
1 - Shut up - except to say "Thank You" every pay day
2 - Speak up and demand a raise
3 - Walk and find better employment/wages

It's a tough decision and I have done all 3 at one time or another.
 
Duse said:
Ok, here's my situation though, I am currently not a certified electrician or Journeyman, I will be shortly but as of now I am not, I am an apprentice, will the Prevailing Wages still apply to me as well as the rest of the crew at the site???
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It doesn't matter how much experience you have. You could have none and the rate applies to you if you are doing electrical work. Have you looked at the web site provided by one of the posters? Look for your state and county and look up residential construction and the rate for an electrician. Are you being paid at least that amount? Verify this is the rate in the Wage Decision. If you are being paid less, notify the Resident Officer In Charge of Construction (ROICC).
 
Call the C.O.R. in charge of the project.All Federally funded jobs have to abide by the prevailing rates, Area wages and benefit Package.{they go by area UNION SCALE] Don't get cheated as I once did.
Bob O.84,Pa.15330
 
I think this employer is trying to clasify the workers as subcontractors to skirt the law.

Watch out for the 1099 and then you will be paying all the taxes that were not deducted.
 
I would like to thank everyone who has put their two cents in here, it's really helped out quite a bit, I'll have a decent arguement with the contractor now when I bring this up to him... I will let you all know how it goes when I have my little sit down with the boss..

Thanx again..

Ryan..
 
mkgrady said:
It doesn't matter how much experience you have. You could have none and the rate applies to you if you are doing electrical work. Have you looked at the web site provided by one of the posters? Look for your state and county and look up residential construction and the rate for an electrician. Are you being paid at least that amount? Verify this is the rate in the Wage Decision. If you are being paid less, notify the Resident Officer In Charge of Construction (ROICC).
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So let me get this right, the pay for a military housing site in Virginia Beach says 9.19$ for an Electrician... Is This Correct???

http://www.gpo.gov/davisbacon/allstates.html
 
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Duse said:
So let me get this right, the pay for a military housing site in Virginia Beach says 9.19$ for an Electrician... Is This Correct???

http://www.gpo.gov/davisbacon/allstates.html
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I looked but I don't know what county Virginia Beach is in. In that link, go to Virginia-The correct County- Residential- and look for electrician rate. That should give you the ballpark. The exact rate is determined at the time the contract is signed. It could be that the classification is not Residential, it could be classified as Building Construction. The only way to know for sure is to see the Wage Decision for the contract.
 
Duse said:
So let me get this right, the pay for a military housing site in Virginia Beach says 9.19$ for an Electrician... Is This Correct???

http://www.gpo.gov/davisbacon/allstates.html
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I can't see under $10 for electrican.....
I would call:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Gerald W. Goddard - Director of Apprenticeship LU 1340[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
(757) 245-1040
http://www.ibew1340.com/index.cfm?zone=/unionactive/view_page.cfm&page=Apprenticeship202620Training
[/FONT]​
[/FONT]
 
Ask your boss ,when you have your sit down, about taxes and insurance will he be making the contributions the same as he has or will you be responceable for 100% of them. I don't know the rules in VA but in California if you are doing a job ,not by the hour,and being paid over $500 you are considered to be contracting and must have a state issued contractors licence.If your boss were to pay you as a contractor and you were not licensed the state would go after him.Although being a federal job this may not apply.This guy is just trying to raise his proffit margin with no liablity.If he wants to save labor cost there is a point it will come back to haunt him. it is his intention to supply all the material ,if you need something that is not on the job are you paid to wait for him to get it to the job? If you are given the parts to do the job ahead of time and he says it takes one roll of romex and it takes two then what? Or lets say your drill burns up and you are making $50.00 more piece work per house then hourly rate would give you, thats 6 houses to pay for a new drill. You also should know the tax, insurance, and liability he is paying per hour to have you on the job.you may make the same and owe more at the end of the year. Or worse make less and owe more.
 
When I left Va., they had a rule that a journeyman electrician needed to be on a job site and he/she could only work one helper. A master electrician on the job site could work as many helpers as he/she wanted to. The bottom line is helpers could not be left on job sites alone.

There are IRS rules about what employees are and are not. If this guy is telling you where to go and when to be there, you are his employee and he needs to be paying the FICA taxes and not be sending you a 1099. You need to know if he is intending to send you a 1099 because you will have a FICA tax bill that will floor you, plus you will be responsible for all of the taxes that were not withheld by your employer.

If you are good and fast, piece work can be a great thing for you. If you are slow and not so good, it would be a disaster. The employer is just trying to minimize his liability. I bet he is tired of pushing employees and is just looking for an easy way out of employer headaches.

The Davis-Bacon electrical wages for the Tidewater area were never very high.
 
Piece work,now that`s a touchy subject.Can an electrician benefit money wise by doing piece work??? Some can and do very well doing piece.Some take a bath come payday.To do well working piece one has to be very efficient and in constant motion.I know many many piece workers here.Some do extremly well come payday.But there are others that think they are doing great but actually are losing money.

Now comes my pet peeve with piece work.Trim out and hot checks done by the less qualified piece workers. DISASTER 99% of the time.Missing hrs,missing jumpers,bad joints made up,loose wires.boxes with no wire in them.They don`t have to fix them all they do is rough.

Don`t get me wrong there are many piece guys that I know when hot checking the houses they do they 99.9 % of the time are perfect,but these guys have been piecing for many years and are actually electricians and not romex monkeys.

Most employers that go piece do so for production rate.faster production =
higer profit margin.Here we take the estimated # of hours to wire a home and use a base hourly rate of around $15.00/hr,being the average of a lead man and a helpers payrate combined divided by 2 man hours.Now that is just a base price for a standard home then the extras over and above the base plan are added at a predetermined price per item.So the better quicker piece guys get the jobs loaded with extras and they make out very well.I`ve seen houses that had a base of $500.00 get the piece guy another $450.00 in extras.But these guys are so fast and efficient the extras hardly adds any time to the job.They are in and out in a day.
 
If it is Federal government funded work it is comes under Davis Bacon in any state. (prevailing wage). Piece work would have to equal prevailing wage. He cannot claim that you are a sub unless you have your own lic and insurace as a contractor. He is treading on dangerous territory.
On the other side of things figure out what it takes you to do the rough and see if you make out better or not. Probably not.
Is he still paying benifits, workers comp etc.? If so no sub.
 
celtic said:
I can't see under $10 for electrican..
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Celtic I couldn't believe it either so I looked at my area and the residential rate is only $8.18 but if you go to the building column then the rate with fringe is a little over $33 . That's a big differance.

For the area where Duse is located the building rate is about $25.00.
Not great but acceptable.
 
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