Question about piece work

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growler said:
Celtic I couldn't believe it either so I looked at my area and the residential rate is only $8.18 but if you go to the building column then the rate with fringe is a little over $33 . That's a big differance.

For the area where Duse is located the building rate is about $25.00.
Not great but acceptable.
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Is that $8.18/hr for a green as grass helper or an electrician???In Atlanta I can`t believe that you found that rate for an electrician.I`m in Florida and the pay scale is lower than other areas but $8.18 is an unrealistic number to throw out there.
 
Piece work isn't good or bad... just another way of doing business. Most of us contractors already do it... we just call them proposals or contracts. Just make sure there's enough profit built in before taking one. I usually offer it to subs... $___ per hour or $___ for the job and let them decide. If they hustle they usually make more $ on the per job deal... if not they survive on the hourly and if the job goes well they'll probably still get a bonus.
 
allenwayne said:
Is that $8.18/hr for a green as grass helper or an electrician???In Atlanta I can`t believe that you found that rate for an electrician.I`m in Florida and the pay scale is lower than other areas but $8.18 is an unrealistic number to throw out there.
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Allenwayne there are no helpers when using the Davis Bacon wage scale.
There are laborers that fetch and carry and there are journeymen ( anyone with tools ).

This is what mkgrady was taking about. Residential rate is low. But if this contract falls under the building or commercial rate then the pay is higher.

I don't know that there are any electricians working for $8.18 , I doubt it.
But the scale is a minmum pay scale not maximum.

If you are in a non union shop and working white ticket then you get prevailing wage for commercial plus the fringe for a total of about $33. This is a good wage for a commercial electrician in this area.

When I worked for prevailing wage it didn't matter if you were a master or a young journeyman the pay was the same. In other words it's a real good deal normally for a young journeyman.

( In Floyd County it's $6.38 for residential ) but just how many homes are you going to see that fall under the Davis Bacon Act. Most Federally Funded projects are either Building or Heavy or highway.
 
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Growler...I read that $8.18/hr (from one of them thar links)...and almost fainted.

Take a typical 40 hr week ~ 327.30...Uncle Sam gets his nuggets...now you're about $250 take home...$1000/mth
Deduct the typical recurring bills...car, payment, ins., gas, food (we're brown bagging it!), etc.

How can these people survive like that?
Here's the scoop on what things cost in [Newport News, Va]...although it is listed as one of the better places to live.

I digress...

So we're at $1000/mth - recurring bills...what's left?
You might do better flipping burgers for $5.15 at Mickey D's and ditch the car and it's expenses, employee discount on meals (they serve breakfast, too!), uniform (no work boots, clothes, etc)...or go upscale and bartend or some other job that has a tip involved.

I just can't see it.
 
celtic said:
Are you TRYING to kill me?

$255/wk BEFORE taxes!
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Celtic, you can look these up yourself. I don't joke when it comes to money.
But the point I was trying to make is this, these are only minimum agreed on wages. If the prevailing wage happens to be higher than you are normally making then you are intitled to it when working on a Federally funded job but no one is going to force you to take a cut in pay. The contractor still has to find someone willing to work for whatever wage. It gets easier as the money goes up.

In MA some of the wages are $60 an hour for a brick mason.

In commercial hear it's about $33 for a journeyman electricain ( commercial).

Look up your own area and see what the scale is for residential and building.

I saw rates form $13 to $45 pr. hour , Electricians aparment wiring in just a few clicks.
 
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Alright, Called the IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) today and here's the scoop, he (the contractor) can dish us 9.19$hr for anybody out at the job sight working as an electrician ( I couldn't believe it either) Luckily I"m making a few more bucks than that, but the point is he just gave these green guys out here a 7$ raise overnight with this piecework b.s. Now I'm gonna be busting my .... for the same amount that I would be getting working 40 hours for the guy, not to mention I spent the entire day out there fixing their mess... because they couldn't couldn't twist the hots under a wirenut or cut in a 3-way, "and U want people like this wiring up your military's housing".

I believe I'm making about 42c a sqft... I'm out of this company as soon as possible....
 
growler said:
Celtic, you can look these up yourself. I don't joke when it comes to money.
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I did!
I still can't see it...or should the word be "believe" it.

growler said:
Look up your own area and see what the scale is for residential and building.
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I will.
 
http://www.gpo.gov/davisbacon/allstates.html

Celtic the rates are all over the place from almost nothing to some serious money. They can chage $10 in ten miles.

Some companies bid nothing but prevailing wage jobs because they allready know what their competitors labor rates are. ( it's the same for everyone )

If you bid this type of work it's good to know what you are going to have to pay going in.
 
Yes Celtic that's the same data.

The only reason that some jobs are rated cheap is because they don't really care who comes in an bids those jobs. The areas with higher pay rates are trying to protect their workers.

Originally I think the Davis Bacon Act was to insure that the goverment had a high quality work force on their construction projects.

I doubt that $9.19 will buy much quality over at Newport News.

The Navy guys have a saying about submarines. Who would want to get on a boat built by the lowest bidder and designed to sink.
 
Duse said:
Alright, Called the IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) today and here's the scoop, he (the contractor) can dish us 9.19$hr for anybody out at the job sight working as an electrician ( I couldn't believe it either) Luckily I"m making a few more bucks than that, but the point is he just gave these green guys out here a 7$ raise overnight with this piecework b.s. Now I'm gonna be busting my .... for the same amount that I would be getting working 40 hours for the guy, not to mention I spent the entire day out there fixing their mess... because they couldn't couldn't twist the hots under a wirenut or cut in a 3-way, "and U want people like this wiring up your military's housing".

I believe I'm making about 42c a sqft... I'm out of this company as soon as possible....
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$9.19 may be the correct rate from the wage decision, but how do you know unless you have seen it. How do you know the the job isn't classified as Building? Or is that the Building rate for an electrician in that county?
 
I am forced to use piecework for roughs, can't afford hourly guys, unfortunately I had to learn the hard way by losing $10000 + my first few months as a new company. I have a really good piece worker that will gross $3500 a week, he makes my paycheck look silly. He is unable to keep helpers because they start thinking about the money but aren't willing to put in the time to make that kind of green. Piecework requires accountability on the contractors part, but once mastered can be very profitable for both parties. This deal in particular sounds shady, very shady, but if i were in the field I would request piecework if the compensation was fair.
 
growler said:
The Navy guys have a saying about submarines. Who would want to get on a boat built by the lowest bidder and designed to sink.
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celtic said:
I think astronauts have a similar saying...
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"You know we're sitting on four million pounds of fuel, one nuclear weapon and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts built by the lowest bidder. Makes you feel good, doesn't it?" ~ Rockhound in Armageddon
 
justin said:
I have a really good piece worker that will gross $3500 a week, he makes my paycheck look silly.
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If you don't mind me asking, how do you decide how much to pay for a given job? I'm interested in offering that to one or two of my guys.
 
Justin, first let me say that I have been burned by piecework, myself. I would favor having less money at the end of the year, but having a steady paycheck throughout the year, as opposed to having big checks and then a short one. That's just the way I roll. :)

But, you do present an interesting opportunity to me, for two reasons. You have experience in this, and I have no desire to see you maimed in a hunting accident (unlike other people I know with experience administering piecework ;) ).

So, I have questions. First: Do you think you could profit more (and perhaps command better quality work) by offering quarterly bonuses, and tracking the productivity of your crews? You said yourself, that the one guy makes obscene paychecks - do you think he would work as hard if he made a normal (or better than normal) hourly wage, and then was surprised with a check for, say, 75% of what the piecework amount would have been?

(Please don't take this as me picking on you - I'd really like a conversation about this, now that a pro-pieceworker is here. :) )
 
LarryFine said:
If you don't mind me asking, how do you decide how much to pay for a given job? I'm interested in offering that to one or two of my guys.
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The last place I was at offered $8 per opening (sw, recep, can, light, smoke...). The service, grounding electrode system, setting temps, etc did not count as openings.
 
Piece work is not for everyone.All the piece workers I know and myself when i did it 25 years ago worked non stop through out the day,that is how we got those insane paychecks.You don`t have to bust your hump to do it just work smarter and steady.Do you think an hourly guy would work non stop if they got the same paycheck if they took a break.The only problem I have with piece workers is that many are just good helpers and that`s it.Helpers.Unless we know the person they go on hourly to start and when they prove themselves then they can go piece.We have 3 piece payrates A, B and C and the $$$$ difference per model is significant.C rate for a base 1250 sq might be $400.00 but if you get A piece pay the same model might pay as high as $750.00.Now keep in mind these are base model prices.Extras boost the pay alot and it also goes acording to piece scale.

Now the really fast piece guys stay in basically the same models all the time,even builder to builder the basic layout is the same.They wire a particular builders model the same each and every one they do no deviation.That is how they get that fast.I know of a 2 man crew that is just down right scary to watch what they can produce.BTW the work they put out is neat and works like a charm each and every time.If there is a problem they come at the end of the day and see if it`s a fault they did.If not they charge the company a hefty trip charge.If it is they fix it no matter what it is.

The builders love these guys they do in 1 day what an hourly crew does in 3.I`ve seen arguments between CM`S over whos house will these guys wire,they know they are just that good and fast.

I lasted about 7 years doing piece apartments in Orlando and by the time it was over for me I was fried to a crisp from the pace.That`s when I went into super customs and then managment when they burnt me out.
 
allenwayne said:
Do you think an hourly guy would work non stop if they got the same paycheck if they took a break.
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Yes, I do. I did. I figured someone was likely looking at my numbers, and I did not want to be "the slow guy." I worked the same out of piecework as under it, because I did not want to be forced under it and take a short check if something went wrong. The houses I did that made money more than paid for the few that tanked (usually for reasons outside my control).

Do I have an unusual work ethic? These days, maybe. But anyone will work if they know someone's keeping an eye on them.

allenwayne said:
Now the really fast piece guys stay in basically the same models all the time,even builder to builder the basic layout is the same.They wire a particular builders model the same each and every one they do no deviation.
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I had the misfortune to be on a tract home project where they were trying to dress them up to make them more attractive to buyers. As a result, no two houses (even of the same model) were the same. I had sheaves of cabinet layouts for the three (or more) different types of kitchen per model.

Piecework can still work for that situation, but it can get pretty tight sometimes. I learned to hate it over time, and I was medium-fast.
 
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