Raised Cover Receptacles and Switches

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goldstar said:
I'm trying to follow the logic here. If you are using EMT and a metal 4" sq. JB then you are not required to use a bonding jumper when you are installing a receptacle in a raised cover. I'm guessing the same logic applies if you're installing a receptacle into a recessed metal gem box. In that case, you would have to use a self-grounding receptacle in order to insure a proper ground. In either case, if you pulled the receptacle out that receptacle would no longer be grounded (but that's scenario when using IF for another thread).

Now, if you're running MC cable, the grounds have to be spliced through with a pig-tail to a grounding screw in the box. I'm guessing the same logic would apply to grounding the actual receptacle would it not ?
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If your running MC cable, It's no different than running EMT. The EGC in the MC still has to bond to the box, and, if the same scenario as we've been discussing you still wouldn't have to put a jumper from the box to the receptacle since the metallic jacket on MC is also and allowed EGC as long as installed properly.

JAP>
 
I always pull stranded.

I'm trying to find out somewhere where it says a Yellow Stakeon Fork is not allowed for 2 conductors. Probably not.
Blue Stakeon's actually fit #12 better than yellow,,, sshhhh... don't tell anybody... :)

The biggest thing form me is to keep the number of EGC's to a bare minimum, which if you have say one #12 coming in, 2 going out, a stinger to the box and a jumper to the receptacle, that's 5 under a wire nut, ugly and not sure acceptable.

If you bring 1 in 2 out, and stinger to the box and use the rule, that's still 4 under a Red wire nut.

If you bring 1 in, strip back the insulation in the middle wrap it around the screw and wirenut to the 2 out with the rule that's 3 under the wirenut which is the scenario I like the best.

If you stakeon a fork to 1 coming in, 2 going out and a jumper to the receptacle, can you put all 4 under 1 grounding screw in the box?... don't think so.
If you use the box as it says you can, do you stake on a fork to each EGC coming into the box and burn (4) Green Equipment Ground Screws?.... Not.

I've always been on projects that require a wire type EGC to be run in the conduit, but, I think if they actually did hands on to see how quickly the fill can add up by doing this, they might reconsider, or come up with a way to keep the box fill by filling it up with splices.

Just me venting.

JAP>
 
What are some of you afraid of if there isn't a bonding jumper to the receptacle on a raised cover?

I am (apparently) one of the few left that still believe a metal raceway is more then effective enough EGC and seldom pull a green through them if it is by my choice. For a typical 5-15 or 5-20 receptacle you have two screws with a nut on back side of each - I can't recall ever seeing one work its way loose, but I suppose carelessness during installation can contribute to this happening - but can also contribute to loose connection of a wire type EGC also.

there isn't the issue you have with the non metallic screw keepers on a box mounted device as you have to remove the screws to be able to fasten the device to a raised cover anyhow.

I think missing ground pins on cord caps (which we don't have so much control over) is a bigger safety issue for the end user - and it seems like over 60-70% of what I install in a raised cover anymore is GFCI protected anyway so that compensates for any EGC issues that come up.
 
kwired said:
What are some of you afraid of if there isn't a bonding jumper to the receptacle on a raised cover?

I am (apparently) one of the few left that still believe a metal raceway is more then effective enough EGC and seldom pull a green through them if it is by my choice. For a typical 5-15 or 5-20 receptacle you have two screws with a nut on back side of each - I can't recall ever seeing one work its way loose, but I suppose carelessness during installation can contribute to this happening - but can also contribute to loose connection of a wire type EGC also.

there isn't the issue you have with the non metallic screw keepers on a box mounted device as you have to remove the screws to be able to fasten the device to a raised cover anyhow.

I think missing ground pins on cord caps (which we don't have so much control over) is a bigger safety issue for the end user - and it seems like over 60-70% of what I install in a raised cover anymore is GFCI protected anyway so that compensates for any EGC issues that come up.
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+1

Side note: not only do you have to use nuts on two end-of-yoke screws, you also have to use the center screw for traditional type receptacles.

Also note, this only applies to surface-mounted boxes.
 
kwired said:
What are some of you afraid of if there isn't a bonding jumper to the receptacle on a raised cover?

I am (apparently) one of the few left that still believe a metal raceway is more then effective enough EGC and seldom pull a green through them if it is by my choice. For a typical 5-15 or 5-20 receptacle you have two screws with a nut on back side of each - I can't recall ever seeing one work its way loose, but I suppose carelessness during installation can contribute to this happening - but can also contribute to loose connection of a wire type EGC also.

there isn't the issue you have with the non metallic screw keepers on a box mounted device as you have to remove the screws to be able to fasten the device to a raised cover anyhow.

I think missing ground pins on cord caps (which we don't have so much control over) is a bigger safety issue for the end user - and it seems like over 60-70% of what I install in a raised cover anymore is GFCI protected anyway so that compensates for any EGC issues that come up.
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They are afraid of the device not being grounded when they work it hot and have the cover with the device bolted to it removed from the box. :p


JAP>
 
Smart $ said:
not only do you have to use nuts on two end-of-yoke screws, you also have to use the center screw for traditional type receptacles.
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I never really even thought about that but always have anyway.

If the rule says at least 2 why do you need the center one?

JAP>
 
MAC702 said:
Because it would just look ridiculous without it!
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No it wouldn't.

How many screws do you need to hold a receptacle in the cover anyway?
I agree when they went from 1 to 2 was a great idea cause 9 times out of 10 the single center screw stripped out over time of use.

having the 2 on the outside was good idea for that.

The rule states at least 2 (with nuts) so that should be enough unless the recept manufacturers wants their hole filled also.

You spend more time terminating a stupid receptacle in a raised cover once you go through all of this along with an EGC if pulled and it's just getting somewhat ridiculous.

JAP>
 
jap said:
I never really even thought about that but always have anyway.

If the rule says at least 2 why do you need the center one?

JAP>
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RTFM ;)

Actually, I have not followed up on this requirement. The last time I got into it was probably around the turn of the century, maybe a couple years prior when the two end screw and nut requirement first came out. Use to be that the center hole was all there was, and all raised covers didn't have the depressed corners for box mount screws.
 
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When code changed and you could no longer support the receptacle in cover mounted applications with a single screw, they started putting screws/nuts in the packaging with the cover for two mounts - but no third screw for the center even though they still provided a center hole in the cover.

Though that center hole could still be convenient for a retaining screw for a larger wall wart or other plug that can be secured via that center screw.
 
kwired said:
When code changed and you could no longer support the receptacle in cover mounted applications with a single screw, they started putting screws/nuts in the packaging with the cover for two mounts - but no third screw for the center even though they still provided a center hole in the cover.

Though that center hole could still be convenient for a retaining screw for a larger wall wart or other plug that can be secured via that center screw.
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They are getting better lately.
Most have 2 or 3 extra screws and nuts in the bags most times.

JAP>
 
kwired said:
When code changed and you could no longer support the receptacle in cover mounted applications with a single screw, they started putting screws/nuts in the packaging with the cover for two mounts - but no third screw for the center even though they still provided a center hole in the cover.
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That's odd. The ones I used to use always came with three short screws and two star-washer nuts in a bag for each receptacle.
 
Smart $ said:
That's odd. The ones I used to use always came with three short screws and two star-washer nuts in a bag for each receptacle.
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I have mostly used RACO or Appleton for past 20-25 years, they always had two screws and two nuts in the package as a general rule, any more or less, which didn't happen all that much, was probably a malfunction on the packaging line.
 
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