Re-identifying wires

[goldstar]

An HVAC contractor friend of mine told me yesterday that an EI failed his AC condenser replacement because the existing10/2 NM cable from the breaker panel to the existing 30A pull-out disconnect did not have the white wire re-identified inside the disconnect. The contractor installed a new, pre-manufactured whip from the disconnect to the AC unit and it had # 10 B-R-G wires in it. Personally speaking, the only time I would re-identify this wire was if I were contracted to upgrade the electric service. I would use a magic marker and re-identify that white wire but I don't believe I'm required by Code to do so. I thought re-identification was required on # 4 only. Am I wrong ? Was the EI wrong in citing the HVAC contractor ?

 

[Little Bill]

An HVAC contractor friend of mine told me yesterday that an EI failed his AC condenser replacement because the existing10/2 NM cable from the breaker panel to the existing 30A pull-out disconnect did not have the white wire re-identified inside the disconnect. The contractor installed a new, pre-manufactured whip from the disconnect to the AC unit and it had # 10 B-R-G wires in it. Personally speaking, the only time I would re-identify this wire was if I were contracted to upgrade the electric service. I would use a magic marker and re-identify that white wire but I don't believe I'm required by Code to do so. I thought re-identification was required on # 4 only. Am I wrong ? Was the EI wrong in citing the HVAC contractor ?

The #4 you referenced is saying you can't re-identify a single conductor (not a cable asbly) smaller than a #4.
As to your friend, you said B-R-G, which I take to mean black, red, and green. None of these would need re-identifying. The white in the NM should be re-identified per code. However, since it was preexisting, the EI could have overlooked that since it's obvious what it is and your friend didn't install it. The EI could have simply said "I will pass it, but could you re-identify the white in the NM cable?"

 

[goldstar]

The #4 you referenced is saying you can't re-identify a single conductor (not a cable asbly) smaller than a #4.
As to your friend, you said B-R-G, which I take to mean black, red, and green. None of these would need re-identifying. The white in the NM should be re-identified per code. However, since it was preexisting, the EI could have overlooked that since it's obvious what it is and your friend didn't install it. The EI could have simply said "I will pass it, but could you re-identify the white in the NM cable?"

I agree but didn’t know it was a Code requirement. IMHO, if you don’t know what you are doing at the disconnect, why are you opening it ? There’s a nameplate on the AC unit that states it’s a 240 v unit. Why would anyone assume the white wire in the disconnect was a neutral? Is the Code trying to protect or inform unqualified people who open a disconnect?

 

[kwired]

I agree but didn’t know it was a Code requirement. IMHO, if you don’t know what you are doing at the disconnect, why are you opening it ? There’s a nameplate on the AC unit that states it’s a 240 v unit. Why would anyone assume the white wire in the disconnect was a neutral? Is the Code trying to protect or inform unqualified people who open a disconnect?

actually been required for some time, though I sort of disagree with the need for the rule for similar reasons you mentioned - if you don't know this is an ungrounded conductor you probably shouldn't be messing with it in the first place. I maybe can understand a little bit re-identifying it at the disconnect, but at the breaker panel end.... is obvious to anyone that knows what they are doing that if it is not landed on the grounded bus it probably is not a grounded conductor 99,99% of the time.

I once had 10-2 cable supplying a 120 volt water heater. Don't know why it was 120 volt, but that particular owner came up with abnormal things in his building. It was 40 or 50 gallon but actually come from factory as a 120 volt unit. Anyhow, when inspector was doing final he happened to notice I did not re-identify the white in the disconnect (line side, load side was colored conductors in flex) and proceeded to start marking it with his black marker. I told him it was a 120 volt unit, so technically he created a violation by doing that

It probably was low enough watts I could have run 12 AWG, and that might have prompted more questions from inspector, but it probably was a situation where I figured it would be the typical 4500 watt 240 volt unit and ran 10 AWG then when it showed up it was only 120 volts.

 

[infinity]

An HVAC contractor friend of mine told me yesterday that an EI failed his AC condenser replacement because the existing10/2 NM cable from the breaker panel to the existing 30A pull-out disconnect did not have the white wire re-identified inside the disconnect. The contractor installed a new, pre-manufactured whip from the disconnect to the AC unit and it had # 10 B-R-G wires in it. Personally speaking, the only time I would re-identify this wire was if I were contracted to upgrade the electric service. I would use a magic marker and re-identify that white wire but I don't believe I'm required by Code to do so. I thought re-identification was required on # 4 only. Am I wrong ? Was the EI wrong in citing the HVAC contractor ?

Is this in New Jersey? If so the funny thing about this is that your friend didn't even need a permit to change out the condenser.

 

[goldstar]

Is this in New Jersey? If so the funny thing about this is that your friend didn't even need a permit to change out the condenser.

Yes, it was in New Jersey but I don’t know what other underlying conditions there were or if he was on a job with others who took out permits for other reasons.

For the record, I think the reasoning behind re-identifying the white wire is a valid requirement. However, at one time it wasn’t necessary and if it’s existing why do you now have to re-identify it? I would do it as a courtesy to other electricians who may come after me but as I said previously, if you don’t know what you’re doing why would you be inside the disconnect or the breaker panel for that matter?

 

[Ken_S]

Is this in New Jersey? If so the funny thing about this is that your friend didn't even need a permit to change out the condenser.

This would fall under minor work, a permit would not be required to start job, however one would still be required at some point. NJAC 5:23-2.17A c 3

 

[infinity]

This would fall under minor work, a permit would not be required to start job, however one would still be required at some point. NJAC 5:23-2.17A c 3

I don't have the info with me but replacement of like for like parts on an existing system would not require a permit.

 

[Ken_S]

I don't have the info with me but replacement of like for like parts on an existing system would not require a permit.

Correct, replacement of parts no permit required, that would fall under ordinary maintenance. Replacement of a condenser would fall under minor work, but a permit would be required