RECEPTACLE EXEMPTIONS NEC 2011

[pollfl]

Hi have an application where children are brought in with mental issues and anger issues, get treatment for months, sleep there until they are ready t move to a foster home. The problem is the children are very destructive and can harm themselves. So the existing facility only has one ceiling receptacle for one TV (Tamper proofed) but no additional receptacles on the walls. We are now adding an addition and the AHJ wants an NEC exception code section to justify not installing the room receptacles. I 'm not sure if one exists without changing the entire classification bringing other issues and system requirements? Any ideas, it would be greatly appreciated.
Even the shower head has to be recessed to avoid hanging!
Thanks,
Bob

 

[roger]

See the exceptions to 517.18(A) and (B)

Roger

 

[kwired]

Hi have an application where children are brought in with mental issues and anger issues, get treatment for months, sleep there until they are ready t move to a foster home. The problem is the children are very destructive and can harm themselves. So the existing facility only has one ceiling receptacle for one TV (Tamper proofed) but no additional receptacles on the walls. We are now adding an addition and the AHJ wants an NEC exception code section to justify not installing the room receptacles. I 'm not sure if one exists without changing the entire classification bringing other issues and system requirements? Any ideas, it would be greatly appreciated.
Even the shower head has to be recessed to avoid hanging!
Thanks,
Bob

What is AHJ's justification to install any receptacles. This is not a dwelling unit, it is a hospital, clinic, or other similar institution. There is no requirement of any receptacles at all if there is no equipment to plug into them for most any non dwelling unit or guest rooms.

210 part III is titled Required Outlets.

210.52 has the most bulk to it, but is for dwelling units only.

210.60 is for guest rooms and suites and would have some similar requirements as 210.52 - maybe your inspector thinks this is what you have - I would strongly question whether or not that is what you have. This is far from a guest room IMO. It is more of an incarceration than being a guest.

All that is left for required outlets is 210.60 for show windows, 210.63 for for receptacles near heating and air conditioning equipment, and 210.70 for lighting outlets.

 

[roger]

What is AHJ's justification to install any receptacles. This is not a dwelling unit, it is a hospital, clinic, or other similar institution. There is no requirement of any receptacles at all if there is no equipment to plug into them for most any non dwelling unit or guest rooms.

210 part III is titled Required Outlets.

210.52 has the most bulk to it, but is for dwelling units only.

210.60 is for guest rooms and suites and would have some similar requirements as 210.52 - maybe your inspector thinks this is what you have - I would strongly question whether or not that is what you have. This is far from a guest room IMO. It is more of an incarceration than being a guest.

All that is left for required outlets is 210.60 for show windows, 210.63 for for receptacles near heating and air conditioning equipment, and 210.70 for lighting outlets.

In healthcare facilities there are in fact required receptacles and 517.18(B) is one of them even if there is no equipment present.

517.18 (B) Patient Bed Location Receptacles. Each patient bed location shall be provided with a minimum of four receptacles. They shall be permitted to be of the single or duplex types or a combination of both. All receptacles, whether four or more, shall be listed “hospital grade” and so identified. The grounding terminal of each receptacle shall be connected to an insulated copper equipment grounding conductor sized in accordance with Table 250.122.

then there is 517.19(B)

517.19 (B) Patient Bed Location Receptacles.
(1) Minimum Number and Supply. Each patient bed location shall be provided with a minimum of six receptacles, at least one of which shall be connected to either of the following:
(1) The normal system branch circuit required in 517.19(A)
(2) An emergency system branch circuit supplied by a different transfer switch than the other receptacles at the same location

Roger

 

[hmspe]

See NEC 517.10(B)(2). If these rooms are exclusively patient sleeping rooms Part II of NEC 517 should not apply. The in-patient psychiatric facilities I have knowledge of have not had the sleeping rooms treated as patient care areas. I think they had receptacles as if they were hotel rooms, but I am not sure any receptacles are required. As previously stated if receptacles are required by the AHJ you don't have to have the breakers for those receptacles turned on.

 

[bobbymari]

See NEC 517.10(B)(2). If these rooms are exclusively patient sleeping rooms Part II of NEC 517 should not apply. The in-patient psychiatric facilities I have knowledge of have not had the sleeping rooms treated as patient care areas. I think they had receptacles as if they were hotel rooms, but I am not sure any receptacles are required. As previously stated if receptacles are required by the AHJ you don't have to have the breakers for those receptacles turned on.

Agreed, if you are forced to provide the receptacles, how about lockouts for circuit breakers.

 

[roger]

Agreed, if you are forced to provide the receptacles, how about lockouts for circuit breakers.

I also agree that if the rooms are exclusively for sleeping beds 517.18 does not apply and with that being the case, we can go back to the article sections provided by kwired and receptacles are not required period.

If the AHJ is stuborn the Architect and EE should be able to list the rooms as healthcare facility rooms (whether they really need to be or not) and use the exceptions.


Roger

 

[Gregg Harris]

I also agree that if the rooms are exclusively for sleeping beds 517.18 does not apply and with that being the case, we can go back to the article sections provided by kwired and receptacles are not required period.

If the AHJ is stuborn the Architect and EE should be able to list the rooms as healthcare facility rooms (whether they really need to be or not) and use the exceptions.


Roger

I got the impression from the OP that it isn't technically an institution and using the exceptions, reclasification would need to take place opening other requirements

 

[capybara]

See NEC 517.10(B)(2). If these rooms are exclusively patient sleeping rooms Part II of NEC 517 should not apply. The in-patient psychiatric facilities I have knowledge of have not had the sleeping rooms treated as patient care areas. I think they had receptacles as if they were hotel rooms, but I am not sure any receptacles are required. As previously stated if receptacles are required by the AHJ you don't have to have the breakers for those receptacles turned on.

gr8 solution !!!!

 

[kwired]

In healthcare facilities there are in fact required receptacles and 517.18(B) is one of them even if there is no equipment present.




then there is 517.19(B)




Roger

It may still be considered health care facility, the room in question just is not a procedure room and does not have a patient bed. Or is like the sleeping rooms of a nursing home.

See NEC 517.10(B)(2). If these rooms are exclusively patient sleeping rooms Part II of NEC 517 should not apply. The in-patient psychiatric facilities I have knowledge of have not had the sleeping rooms treated as patient care areas. I think they had receptacles as if they were hotel rooms, but I am not sure any receptacles are required. As previously stated if receptacles are required by the AHJ you don't have to have the breakers for those receptacles turned on.

I got the impression from the OP that it isn't technically an institution and using the exceptions, reclasification would need to take place opening other requirements

Not an institution? Sounds like it has a pretty specific purpose and is for mental health care, how much more institution do you need?

 

[Gregg Harris]

It may still be considered health care facility, the room in question just is not a procedure room and does not have a patient bed. Or is like the sleeping rooms of a nursing home.



Not an institution? Sounds like it has a pretty specific purpose and is for mental health care, how much more institution do you need?

I 'm not sure if one exists without changing the entire classification bringing other issues and system requirements?

From the original post

 

[steve66]

Are there provisions for cooking? If not, its not a dwelling unit, and the receptacles are not required.

 

[kwired]

I 'm not sure if one exists without changing the entire classification bringing other issues and system requirements?

From the original post

OP never mentioned any classification or other required systems. Chances are pretty good this is considered a mental health institution on some level and there are other required systems installed. If the children have the kind of problems the OP mentions, I doubt they are unsupervised or unmonitored for any considerable length of time as they may be a harm to themselves. This isn't something that happens in someones home (not with multiple "patients" anyway), it happens in a licensed or otherwise approved mental institution.

 

[renosteinke]

Have the AHJ start re-reading Article 110 .... as regards his authority to waive code requirements. The code is not written to insist that you create a greater danger or additional hazards.

 

[kwired]

Have the AHJ start re-reading Article 110 .... as regards his authority to waive code requirements. The code is not written to insist that you create a greater danger or additional hazards.

If this is not a dwelling unit or guest room, there is no code to waive.