Receptacle location - Library

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Re: Receptacle location - Library

I have never seen the bookcases as requiring a receptacle(s). I've always seen then the same as cabinets.

Those who think we should treat the bookcases as ordinary wall space; do you think a built-in attached to the wall cabinet that is over twelve feet long is considered wall space??
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

it is likely along that wall of shelves that a table with chair and lamp wil be positioned.
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

The NEC specifically mentions libraries. It also mentions "wall space", not walls. The use of the term "space" is also used in 110.26, where the "space" around electric equipment can be within the "room" the electric equipment is located in. The library would be required to conform to the receptacle requirements (in a dwelling of course).
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

This library requires receptacles in my opinion. As in the thread that George linked, I feel that at the very least, the bookshelves or cabinets with doors are "fixed room dividers".
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

Originally posted by haskindm:
Installing shelves on a wall does not negate the fact that it is still a wall, and libraries are speifically mentioned in 210 as requiring normal receptacle spacing.
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Here's an analogy to counter your thinking.

Replace the bookshelves with fireplaces.

Now you have fireplaces lining the room, with little breaks here and there for artwork. At any of the spaces between fireplaces that are two feet wide or more, receptacles are required, because libraries are specifically mentioned in 210.52.

But just because libraries are mentioned in 210.52, does not mean we must install receptacles in the fireplaces; the area containing fireplaces are not wall spaces requiring outlets. They are still walls, but they are specifically exempted from requiring outlets.

IMO, shelving built into a wall is the same as a fireplace. It is a "similar opening." Just because they are installed in walls does not make them "wall spaces" requiring outlets.
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

George, to me a bookshelf is more like a fixed room divider than it is like a fireplace.

Do we disagree on: miami is to heat as chicago is to....?
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

Originally posted by j_erickson:
George, to me a bookshelf is more like a fixed room divider than it is like a fireplace.

Do we disagree on: miami is to heat as chicago is to....?
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John, how is a bookshelf "dividing" the room? It is not separating one room from another.

My analogy is cabinetry. A wall with cabinetry that extends from one end to the other is not wall space.

Now reality. I am arguing what I think is legal. I would however find a way to get some receptacles in there.
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

Originally posted by j_erickson: George, to me a bookshelf is more like a fixed room divider than it is like a fireplace.
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I agree with electricmanscott?s response to this statement. You are not using the bookcase to divide the room into two separate areas, and you are not using it as the boundary between two rooms. This is not an effective argument.
Originally posted by j_erickson: Do we disagree on: miami is to heat as chicago is to....?
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I think we do. Like frequently happens in communication, there are more than one way to interpret this ?analogy? of yours. I could fill in the blank with ?Bulls,? referring to the two basketball franchises. I could also fill in the blank with ?windy,? referring to the predominant weather conditions.
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

Originally posted by j_erickson:
George, to me a bookshelf is more like a fixed room divider than it is like a fireplace.

Do we disagree on: miami is to heat as chicago is to....?
Click to expand...
I think that the argument here is whether or it is or isn't a fixed room divider. "Like a fixed room divider" isn't the same as being, a fixed room divider. I liked Georges analogy. And as I said earlier I agree with Charlie.


Trevor
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

My interpretation remains that stricltly speaking, bookshelves lining a wall still creates wallspace.

I think we agreed to disagree in the topic that George linked. :)
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Originally posted by j_erickson:
George, to me a bookshelf is more like a fixed room divider than it is like a fireplace.

Do we disagree on: miami is to heat as chicago is to....?
Click to expand...
John, how is a bookshelf "dividing" the room? It is not separating one room from another.

My analogy is cabinetry. A wall with cabinetry that extends from one end to the other is not wall space.

Now reality. I am arguing what I think is legal. I would however find a way to get some receptacles in there.
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Scott, if it is not a wall and not separating one room from another, I should be able to walk through it, no?

I still can not fathom how anyone feels that a "room" lined with open bookshelves has no "wallspace". If there is no wallspace, how is it a room?
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

So Charlie, wind or bulls?


edited typo

[ January 14, 2006, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: j_erickson ]
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

Is a bookshelf similar to a fire place ?Is a range similar to a fire place ? Perhaps we should call that space behind a range or sink wallspace.I think the space in front of a bookshelf is no more usable than the space in front of a door.It would be a good idea to have them in the library but not required.Notice it says (in every kitchen,family room,dining room,living room,parlor,LIBRARY,den,sunroom,bedroom,recreation room---------------------------------------
Seems that all its pointing out is that the room requires receptacles.Openings do break up spaces.Find it hard to believe that this is solid bookshelf but if it is then there is no space requiring one.For same reasons we count sinks,fireplaces,ranges,doors then we should count bookshelfs.
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

We are unlikely to put a lamp and table in front of fireplaces, ranges, sinks, doors, BUT are very likely to put a table with lamp along a wall with full bookshelves. People who don't read very much might stand to read a short section of a book at the bookshelf as long as the book isn't too heavy, but some reference books are heavy. Many people peruse books by reading short sections while seated near bookshelves, instead of taking all the books back to some seat.

paul
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

Originally posted by apauling:
...BUT are very likely to put a table with lamp along a wall with full bookshelves.
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So, they move the table with the lamp on it when they're trying to get to the book behind the table?

Open to perception, I guess.

Unlike the Bronco's victory, that is clear as day. :D
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

Jim
You have posted and highlighted the section, and then you contridict it in your statement.

"For same reasons we count sinks,fireplaces,ranges,doors then we should count bookshelfs."

The NEC mentions sinks, fireplaces, ranges, doors... where do you see bookshelves mentioned?


Sometimes we may not like what is written, that does not mean we should try and twist it to fit our own thinking.

The NEC purposely mentions libraries, and it does not exempt shelves... so why do you say they should not be included... other than personal feelings?

Show me the facts ;)

[ January 15, 2006, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
 
Re: Receptacle location - Library

...and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
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What does everyone else have in mind by "similar openings"? What do a fireplace and a doorway have in common, and what are the similar openings to those traits?
 
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