receptacles in bathtub space

JDB3

Senior Member
I am currently working on a plan for a single family dwelling. The plan is showing an "electric fireplace" (the type that plugs in to a receptacle) at the end of a whirlpool tub (yep, that is what it shows) . :?
I can find the code reference for not having a switch in this location, but not a code reference about receptacles in this location.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
This is what you are looking for but it may not prohibit it.

404.4 Damp or Wet Locations. A surface-mounted switch or circuit breaker in a damp or wet location shall be en-closed in a weatherproof enclosure or cabinet that shall comply with 312.2. A flush-mounted switch or circuit breaker in a damp or wet location shall be equipped with a weatherproof cover. Switches shall not be installed within wet locations in tub or shower spaces unless installed as part of a listed tub or shower assembly.
 

jumper

Senior Member
Not exactly a hot tub.

406.9

(C) Bathtub and Shower Space.
Receptacles shall not be
installed within or directly over a bathtub or shower stall

or

680.34 Receptacle Locations.
Receptacles shall not be lo-
cated less than 1.83 m (6 ft) from the inside walls of a
storable pool, storable spa, or storable hot tub. In determin-
ing these dimensions, the distance to be measured shall be
the shortest path the supply cord of an appliance connected
to the receptacle would follow without piercing a floor,
wall, ceiling, doorway with hinged or sliding door, window
opening, or other effective permanent barrier.

or 680.43(A)
(1) Location.
Receptacles shall be located at least 1.83 m
(6 ft) measured horizontally from the inside walls of the spa
or hot tub.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Title says receptacles, text says switch.

Either way I think we have it covered. :cool:

Actually the text says he can find the article for the switch but not the receptacle. I made the same misread when I read it the first time

I can find the code reference for not having a switch in this location, but not a code reference about receptacles in this location.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Actually the text says he can find the article for the switch but not the receptacle. I made the same misread when I read it the first time
Yeah I figured that out already.

It's getting to the point where I really need to wear my glasses all the time. (And I don't).
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
406.9

(C) Bathtub and Shower Space.
Receptacles shall not be
installed within or directly over a bathtub or shower stall

Thanks, would think that this would just be "common sense" !
The problem is what does that mean over a bathtub is only one place-- the ceiling, IMO. This is a very poorly written code.

The sink is to the left and the tub on the right. This is compliant but one for a fireplace would not be? Is the receptacle inside the firebox?

 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I am currently working on a plan for a single family dwelling. The plan is showing an "electric fireplace" (the type that plugs in to a receptacle) at the end of a whirlpool tub (yep, that is what it shows) . :?
I can find the code reference for not having a switch in this location, but not a code reference about receptacles in this location.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Is the receptacle inside the "tub/shower stall" is the key.

I don't like the idea of the fireplace being right up to the tub space, but at same time can't find code to reject it as long as the receptacle is not within the tub/shower space.
 

JDB3

Senior Member
There is a small tile deck with an opening that the whirlpool tub will sit in. The "electric fireplace" would be on the same deck, about a foot from the end of the tub, sitting in a small framed-in area. I am quite sure that they would want the receptacle in this framed in area.

Therefore, I would consider this in the bathtub space. Even though it would be GFCI protected (by a blank-face GFCI that would be accessible) it does not seem like a good idea to have something of this nature in the area.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
If the receptacle is in the framed in area and the tile deck is not part of the tub assembly I would not consider it to be "over" the tub.
If for some reason pool rules apply it might be too close to either the edge of the pool or the edge of the water.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
There is a small tile deck with an opening that the whirlpool tub will sit in. The "electric fireplace" would be on the same deck, about a foot from the end of the tub, sitting in a small framed-in area. I am quite sure that they would want the receptacle in this framed in area.

Therefore, I would consider this in the bathtub space. Even though it would be GFCI protected (by a blank-face GFCI that would be accessible) it does not seem like a good idea to have something of this nature in the area.
Like GD said if it were a spa/swimming pool then it is likely too close, but for a hydromassage tub or a standard bathtub it is allowed - might not be a good idea according to many people but is allowed by NEC.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
The problem is what does that mean over a bathtub is only one place-- the ceiling, IMO. This is a very poorly written code.

The sink is to the left and the tub on the right. This is compliant but one for a fireplace would not be? Is the receptacle inside the firebox?


Dennis, I disagree the installation is over the tub deck and is non compliant -- now use the same location with a free standing tub and the discussion would begin.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Dennis, I disagree the installation is over the tub deck and is non compliant -- now use the same location with a free standing tub and the discussion would begin.

Where in the words does it state over the tub deck. What does over the tub mean--- the ceiling, IMO.. I am not saying that is the intent but this is terrible. If I move the receptacle over 6" it is not over the tub but easily gotten to from the tub, however if the deck of the tub where 12" deep and the receptacle up high for a TV that is not compliant to many. It does not make sense

(C) Bathtub and Shower Space. Receptacles shall not be
installed within or directly over a bathtub or shower stall.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
There is a small tile deck with an opening that the whirlpool tub will sit in. The "electric fireplace" would be on the same deck, about a foot from the end of the tub, sitting in a small framed-in area. I am quite sure that they would want the receptacle in this framed in area.

Therefore, I would consider this in the bathtub space. Even though it would be GFCI protected (by a blank-face GFCI that would be accessible) it does not seem like a good idea to have something of this nature in the area.
A gas fireplace should have within its installation instructions where it may be placed - the biggect concern is the hot glass cold water effect which should be addressed in the specs. non readily accesible receptacle in the unit would be per listing.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
Where in the words does it state over the tub deck. What does over the tub mean--- the ceiling, IMO.. I am not saying that is the intent but this is terrible. If I move the receptacle over 6" it is not over the tub but easily gotten to from the tub, however if the deck of the tub where 12" deep and the receptacle up high for a TV that is not compliant to many. It does not make sense
In the NEC the only reference to bathtub dimesions accurately & illustarted in commentary is 410.10(D)
This zone is all encompassing and includes the space directly over the tub or shower stall. Luminaires located within the actual outside dimension of the bathtub or shower to a height of 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower threshold shall be marked for damp locations, or marked for wet locations where subject to shower spray.
The illustration shows the deck as space directly over the tub which is well within the parameters of using as a NEC reference for the definition. This is a battle I would fight & catch at rough in, due to the recept is "legal over the countertop 6" away" which would have no controversy per NEC.
Your interpretation accepts a receptacle anywhere in a three sided tub area with an oval tub having a deck completely around it as lond as there is visible deck between tub & wall. Moving the receptacle over in your example over 18" you are still saying it is not above the tub.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
All I've used the NEC 2008 exhibit , the wording has not change. I have altered the exhibit to express what I am understanding some believe to be a compliant installation of a receptacle not over a bathtub. to be clear I have marked the bathtub rim & defined the deck.
 

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Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I understand where you are coming from. My point is the wording of the article sucks. Over the tub is over the tub it is not on the wall. If I had a 10' deck around the tub you would not allow the receptacles yet the receptacle in the pic would be compliant in your eyes if it were 6" or so to the left. See my point. It's right here

 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
We agree the wording sucks -- never seen a 10' deck in a bathroom -- but remember
90.1 Purpose
(A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity. This Code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons.
 
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