receptacles in bathtub space

[kwired]

A gas fireplace should have within its installation instructions where it may be placed - the biggect concern is the hot glass cold water effect which should be addressed in the specs. non readily accesible receptacle in the unit would be per listing.

OP's fireplace is not gas it is electric, also one reason a 120 volt receptacle is needed, gas fireplace likely doesn't have a cord but there are several electric units that are more less portable or an insert that are cord and plug connected.

 

[resistance]

Dennis, I disagree the installation is over the tub deck and is non compliant -- now use the same location with a free standing tub and the discussion would begin.

That receptacle is compliant! It is not directly above the tub or within the tub.

 

[mwm1752]

That receptacle is compliant! It is not directly above the tub or within the tub.

So the Seattle area AHJ accepts the illustrated concept I had posted which is within the same parameters of Dennis's photo. Would really like to see a picture example of a passed install like that.

 

[kwired]

All I've used the NEC 2008 exhibit , the wording has not change. I have altered the exhibit to express what I am understanding some believe to be a compliant installation of a receptacle not over a bathtub. to be clear I have marked the bathtub rim & defined the deck.

The image you posted and section it is referring to is for luminaires and doesn't cover receptacles, or the OP's fireplace for that matter.

 

[mwm1752]

The talk turn to defining the area above a bathtub if no defined area in 406 is where you make a stand, wonder how that would work in court. -- do you really support having a receptacle that in order to be used must cross the restricted zone? Certainly crossed the intent of 90.1 IMO -- now you will tell me 90.1 is not really code but we do follow 90.3 as code.

 

[resistance]

So the Seattle area AHJ accepts the illustrated concept I had posted which is within the same parameters of Dennis's photo. Would really like to see a picture example of a passed install like that.

Answer this: Is a bathroom receptacle allowed within 3 feet of a tub. Im trying to get you to see what the code really means.

 

[mwm1752]

Answer this: Is a bathroom receptacle allowed within 3 feet of a tub. Im trying to get you to see what the code really means.

So you cannot give a direct answer to my question -- words & intent give the code meaning.

 

[JDB3]

The image you posted and section it is referring to is for luminaires and doesn't cover receptacles, or the OP's fireplace for that matter.

The plan is showing an "electric fireplace" (the type that plugs in to a receptacle) at the end of a whirlpool tub (yep, that is what it shows) .

As you can see, I stated that a receptacle would be required for the electric fireplace that would be used.

 

[resistance]

So you cannot give a direct answer to my question -- words & intent give the code meaning.

I don’t live in the city of Seattle (I’m more in the Kirkland area of WA State), but yes they do. Why not? Lets say you have a bathroom countertop about 6 inches from a tub. I decide to mount my receptacle Above the countertop, but only three inches from the tub. Would you say thats code compliant? :happyyes:

 

[resistance]

So you cannot give a direct answer to my question -- words & intent give the code meaning.

In reference to your words and intent comment. I believe the code is clear in this case. So lets look at 210.8(A)9 [2014]: GFCI protection is required for persons where a receptacle is installed within [Note: there is that word (within), but it means something different when you add a distance and specific to or from location] 6Ft of the outside edge (Note: outside edge is a specific location from, or to) of the bathtub or shower stall. WOW!! So I can install my receptacle next to the outside edge of the tub if I want, as long as it’s GFCI protected

 

[mwm1752]

I don’t live in the city of Seattle (I’m more in the Kirkland area of WA State), but yes they do. Why not? Lets say you have a bathroom countertop about 6 inches from a tub. I decide to mount my receptacle Above the countertop, but only three inches from the tub. Would you say thats code compliant? :happyyes:

yes not over the tub including decking -- I have not said otherwise to your desciptive situation -- there is always a demarcation point in which compliant becomes non compliant

 

[mwm1752]

In reference to your words and intent comment. I believe the code is clear in this case. So lets look at 210.8(A)9 [2014]: GFCI protection is required for persons where a receptacle is installed within [Note: there is that word (within), but it means something different when you add a distance and specific to or from location] 6Ft of the outside edge (Note: outside edge is a specific location from, or to) of the bathtub or shower stall. WOW!! So I can install my receptacle next to the outside edge of the tub if I want, as long as it’s GFCI protected

Is the deck of a tub within the confines of above? The code says above tub rim -- once again I have never stated that a receptacle could not be outside of a tub including the deck area. IMO the deck that surrounds the tub is part of the tub rim now use a freestanding tub without deck without deck -----------????????

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Is the deck of a tub within the confines of above? The code says above tub rim -- once again I have never stated that a receptacle could not be outside of a tub including the deck area. IMO the deck that surrounds the tub is part of the tub rim now use a freestanding tub without deck without deck -----------????????

Seriously, The deck is a tub???:? You are wanting it to cover your interpretation and you may very well be correct as to the intent but there is no way that the deck is part of a tub

 

[mwm1752]

Seriously, The deck is a tub???:? You are wanting it to cover your interpretation and you may very well be correct as to the intent but there is no way that the deck is part of a tub

the deck is part of the tub assembly or it would not be able to set. If it is a free standing tub a deck would not be installed. Seriously. How esle would you determine the stall area of a tub?

 

[GoldDigger]

the deck is part of the tub assembly or it would not be able to set. If it is a free standing tub a deck would not be installed. Seriously. How esle would you determine the stall area of a tub?

I would also use the deck area to determine the stall area of a tub, but that is not what the code is talking about. :happyno:

It is not "[over a] tub or shower stall" meaning over a tub stall or a shower stall, it is
"[over a] tub or shower stall" meaning over a shower stall or over a tub.
JMO, of course.

 

[mwm1752]

For the most part (including mine) it is all opinions respecfully - I know I take a hard line on this but if you serioulsy believe the images I have posted with the receptacle placement on the back wall of the stall over the tub deck is code compliant then prove it with a passed installation. If it cannot be passed it cannot be code compliant. Thats just real world circumstances.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Okay so let's assume this tub shown which is sunken into the floor, is 5' from the wall. I say that because there looks like there are chairs there. More like a hot tub or hydromassage tub but pretend it is just a tub. Can I not put any outlets in this room? Where is the tub rim?


Oops forget the Image

 

[kwired]

the deck is part of the tub assembly or it would not be able to set. If it is a free standing tub a deck would not be installed. Seriously. How esle would you determine the stall area of a tub?

Okay so let's assume this tub shown which is sunken into the floor, is 5' from the wall. I say that because there looks like there are chairs there. More like a hot tub or hydromassage tub but pretend it is just a tub. Can I not put any outlets in this room? Where is the tub rim?

I was going to suggest a similar situation. Can't say I have ever seen it but is certainly possible.

 

[resistance]

Is the deck of a tub within the confines of above? The code says above tub rim -- once again I have never stated that a receptacle could not be outside of a tub including the deck area. IMO the deck that surrounds the tub is part of the tub rim now use a freestanding tub without deck without deck -----------????????

I rest! I don’t believe you are willing to understand it!

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Sorry I forgot to insert the image. I inserted it above but I will do it here also. We all know this may be unusual but I am just trying to make a point. The code states over the bathtub not the decking. The tub is the tub and nothing more. I think we can all agree that this section needs work.

My point on the first graphic I posted was the receptacle by the sink would be perfectly compliant , in all eyes, if it were installed a few inches to the left yet it does not change the safety that many are concerned about.

In an ideal world the receptacle would not be accessible from the tub itself but in many baths that is difficult to achieve