Receptacles in Commercial drop ceilings

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Then I would postulate that the phrase "unless specifically permitted in 400.7..." would take effect here, with the projector assembly being listed for its use in a ceiling environment. Section 400.7(8) allows such uses, and this should make it a compliant installation.
 
77401 said:
If your really concerned then just slip some flex over the SO & hard wire it.
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Nope, can't do that either, see 400.8 (6)

Roger
 
NYC electrical code is not the NEC

NYC electrical code is not the NEC

To the OP I would say that you have to check the NYC electrical code.

There are many, many places that the NYC electrical code does not remotely resemble the NEC.

In this instance it may....or not.

As I remember, it was years and years before you could run 4" emt in the City, whereas it was being used profusely in the rest of the country.
 
thinfool said:
To the OP I would say that you have to check the NYC electrical code.

There are many, many places that the NYC electrical code does not remotely resemble the NEC.

In this instance it may....or not.

As I remember, it was years and years before you could run 4" emt in the City, whereas it was being used profusely in the rest of the country.
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NYC is under the 2002 NEC with their own revisions. Article 400.8 is not on the NYC revision list, therefore it must comply with the NEC.
 
infinity said:
We have installed these lifts manufactured by the company in the photo and they came with cords and plugs attached, right out of the box.
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That's probably there for testing purposes only :)

So, are you saying you violated a CODE??
 
ty said:
That's probably there for testing purposes only :)

So, are you saying you violated a CODE??
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I find it very difficlut to believe that:

1) Any manufacturer would install a suitable line cord on their device for "testing purposes only"
2) They would go to the trouble of obtaining a "UL" listing of their device
3) You ignore that part of 400.8 that allows for such things to be installed under the provisions of 400.7(8).
 
kbsparky said:
3) You ignore that part of 400.8 that allows for such things to be installed under the provisions of 400.7(8).
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You won't find that UL lists the equipment specifically to have a cord above the ceiling.
 
iwire said:
You won't find that UL lists the equipment specifically to have a cord above the ceiling.
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Where do you think they intend for a ceiling mounted projector to be fed power from then?

WHY do you think that the UL listing has to specifically state it can be installed and fed from above the ceiling? Do they specifically state that it can NOT be wired that way? Wouldn't such an appliance be assumed to be mounted in, and fed from above the ceiling? Don't you think the manufacturer's instructions on installation show the device being plugged into an outlet adjacent to the device? Do those same instructions prohibit using the supplied line cord on such installations?

Anybody here have the paperwork that comes with a ceiling mounted projector? What do they specifically say about this?
 
kbsparky said:
WHY do you think that the UL listing has to specifically state it can be installed and fed from above the ceiling? Do they specifically state that it can NOT be wired that way? Wouldn't such an appliance be assumed to be mounted in, and fed from above the ceiling?
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OK I will try again.

Imagine you have a piece of information technology equipment listed for use in computer rooms. Now you want to run the cord from it under the floor to an outlet. But you can't because 400.8 prohibits it.

Except you get specific permission to do so by 645.5(D).

Now I ask you.

Why do you think that Mike Holt, the NEC Handbook, many inspectors, many electricians are wrong and only you see it correctly.

Just because something is listed does not mean we can do what we want.

Think of simple plug strips with cords, almost every one I see has provisions for mounting them to a surface but if you look in the UL white book you find that UL says they are not to be mounted.

Bob
 
Why do you completely ignore the provisions of 400.7(8)??

Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord connection.
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I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. You have not convinced me that 400.8 trumps 400.7(8). It's right there in plain black and white text, unlike other back-door provisions that are enforced from the Code.
 
kbsparky said:
I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. You have not convinced me that 400.8 trumps 400.7(8). It's right there in plain black and white text, unlike other back-door provisions that are enforced from the Code.
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So the jest of it is you know the rules better than anyone?

All the inspectors, consultants, handbook authors are incorrect.:rolleyes:

I will continue to follow the code as I and most people see it.

You never did tell me why 645 has a specific section allowing cords under a floor if 400.7(8) allows it. :D
 
iwire said:
So the jest of it is you know the rules better than anyone?
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I recall you put me in that classification... so I welcome the company... so it therefore really can't be "better than anyone" by your own words :D :D

iwire said:
All the inspectors, consultants, handbook authors are incorrect.
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Have you ever heard of mind conditioning? And from your statement are we to believe you know each and every inspector, consultant, and handbook author personally and have confirmed their interpretation on this issue firsthand? :eek:

iwire said:
You never did tell me why 645 has a specific section allowing cords under a floor if 400.7(8) allows it. :D
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Are you contending there is absolutely no redundancy in the entire Code. LOL
 
iwire said:
I would answer but...I don't have the time to spend on such insignificant matters, so I'm moving on... :D
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ROTFLMAO

Roger
 
Sec 645- Pertains to raised flooring wiring as it pertains to an equipment room.

Sec 400.8 prohibits it's use in the question above dropped ceilings but as BOB correctly stated the reason it is allowed for the equipment under floors is not only pertaining to Sec 645 which says it is allowed ( in listed limitations without going into additional detail ) it clearly says in (5) " where concealed by walls, floors, ceilings, or located above suspended or dropped ceilings.

Now since the raised floor issues is allowed and has access to it and in most all situations it is for utilization equipment ( which is why the floor is raised anyway ) it is not considered concealed.

Define - Exposed ( as it applies to wiring methods ) " On or attached to the surface if a building or behind panels designed to allow such access, such as suspended ceilings or raised floor space.

Now since you cant use it per 400.8 in suspended ceilings , the raised floor space would allow it....and since most of the equipment is for utilizations and probably frequent changing and upgrading....400.7 allows the use of the cord...400.8 does not disallow the raised floor allowance for the flex cord....and if is pertains to data equipment rooms....Sec 645 allows it...which is a totally different thing....
 
radiopet said:
Now since the raised floor issues is allowed and has access to it and in most all situations it is for utilization equipment ( which is why the floor is raised anyway ) it is not considered concealed.
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Sounds to me like the difference between beneath raised floor and above a grid & tile ceiling is simply a matter of no one wants to go get the ladder :D

Just kidding!

Another issue that has to be considered is what happens during the initial stages of a fire...
 
Another issue that has to be considered is what happens during the initial stages of a fire...
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Why? The amount of toxic smoke producing building materials is so small in comparision to the amount of toxic smoke producing furnishings and finishes is so small that it isn't a real issue. Yes, I know that a lot of codes make it an issue, but in reality it isn't.
Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Why? The amount of toxic smoke producing building materials is so small in comparision to the amount of toxic smoke producing furnishings and finishes is so small that it isn't a real issue. Yes, I know that a lot of codes make it an issue, but in reality it isn't.
Don
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I wasn't referring to smoke. I did say stageS. OK, maybe not so much the initial stage of a FIRE! Where does the heat accumulate the fastest? Aren't a lot of the cords manufactured nowadays insulated with thermoplastic, which melts at moderately temperatures compared to that of a fire? I know vinyl is shaped in manufacturing processes anywhere from the mid 200?F to around 400?F. I believe THHN is insulated with vinyl under a nylon jacket. Nylon has a slightly higher melting point than vinyl. However THHN is required to be in a raceway and [should have] a ground-fault path if its insulation melts and the ungrounded conductor itself becomes exposed within the raceway. The same cannot be said of a cord.

Having not read all the posts on this topic, I have to ask if anyone will provide the reason(s) for not permitting cords above an accessible ceiling...? A lot of the Code is "common sense", but this one is not readily obvious...!
 
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