drbond24
Senior Member
- Location
- Barboursville, West Virginia
I suspect he's looking for something like: "Here, I'll just make this check out to you and sign it but leave the amount blank. You can fill that in later."
Red Flags
- Thread starter George Stolz
- Start date
- Status
I suspect he's looking for something like: "Here, I'll just make this check out to you and sign it but leave the amount blank. You can fill that in later."
Sometimes, and unfortunately its this economy, you get splattered. No matter what precautions you take, liens, change orders, signed in triplicate contracts, you're gonna get screwed.
10 minutes before the final check is delivered Notice of Bankruptcy arrives first. Never see it coming because the person/business is great at hiding everything.
10 minutes before the final check is delivered Notice of Bankruptcy arrives first. Never see it coming because the person/business is great at hiding everything.
GUNNING
Senior Member
- Location
- Gainesville, Florida
Hadjid or Sayed
Hadjid or Sayed
"Money is no object!" Because there isn't any.
Any Restaurant work. They wont pay unless you hold up the manager with weapons at the cash register.
I went one place and the guy that hired me said "who are you again?"
Anyone from the near or far east. They have market skills. If you don't dicker with them they will think you have cheated them or are socially deficient. This is cultural not a bigoted viewpoint. Its always a real negotiation session at the up front or at the back end and you will have to give them something for free to get the job. If not up front, then you will pay for it either during the job or as you present the bill. "Move that outlet over 2 inches" or "I have a small thing, could you fix this while you are here?" brought up after they have written the check or before the final, just enough to get something else without ponying up. Still negotiating. Wears ya down. You agree just to get out of there. If your polite, it gets you a return bout.
Had one customer that returned from a madrass vacation only to not pay me. Given the historical perspective, Im lucky.
Hadjid or Sayed
"Money is no object!" Because there isn't any.
Any Restaurant work. They wont pay unless you hold up the manager with weapons at the cash register.
I went one place and the guy that hired me said "who are you again?"
Anyone from the near or far east. They have market skills. If you don't dicker with them they will think you have cheated them or are socially deficient. This is cultural not a bigoted viewpoint. Its always a real negotiation session at the up front or at the back end and you will have to give them something for free to get the job. If not up front, then you will pay for it either during the job or as you present the bill. "Move that outlet over 2 inches" or "I have a small thing, could you fix this while you are here?" brought up after they have written the check or before the final, just enough to get something else without ponying up. Still negotiating. Wears ya down. You agree just to get out of there. If your polite, it gets you a return bout.
Had one customer that returned from a madrass vacation only to not pay me. Given the historical perspective, Im lucky.
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
I used to discuss payment schedule at the very first meeting. This will really give one a good idea of where you may be at the end of the job.
"Oh, I do not pay down payments" - my response "SEE YA!"
I am not talking about AIA type jobs, but smaller jobs that a lot of electricians perform. These jobs can be from $500 - $20,000, and everything inbetween.
1. EVERY EC should have a real contract. Hire a good Construction Attorney to help you iron it out. Even if it costs up to $4000 or $5000 , it will be worth every penny. These contracts will last your company a long time, and if it needs tweeking, the cost is then minimal.
If an EC has no real contract, then expecting to get paid is just plain folly. It is easier and cheaper to stay home and dream.
The days of a handshake are really over, it is very rare that will work anymore.
I learned the hard way one job. I actually got to court to try and collect $10,000. When the judge finished with me, I felt smaller than an ant. He gave me advice - learn how to be a contractor or go back to work as an electrician - wow! that hurt.
Shortly after that, I went and got a contract. That did not help enough, as it had so many holes in it, that I could not hold back mist with it.
So, I hired a Construction Attorney. The best money I spent as an EC. I also learned a ton from him about keeping my money as well, and collection costs took a nose dive. I actually got some very nice jobs, as the customer thought I was so professional. Perception is very important as part of an EC's arsenal.
I also learned the more professional GCs and homeowners had more respect and confidence in a professional than a run of the mill electrician.
Sorry for the run-on, but this is a part of our culture that really needs attention.
"Oh, I do not pay down payments" - my response "SEE YA!"
I am not talking about AIA type jobs, but smaller jobs that a lot of electricians perform. These jobs can be from $500 - $20,000, and everything inbetween.
1. EVERY EC should have a real contract. Hire a good Construction Attorney to help you iron it out. Even if it costs up to $4000 or $5000 , it will be worth every penny. These contracts will last your company a long time, and if it needs tweeking, the cost is then minimal.
If an EC has no real contract, then expecting to get paid is just plain folly. It is easier and cheaper to stay home and dream.
The days of a handshake are really over, it is very rare that will work anymore.
I learned the hard way one job. I actually got to court to try and collect $10,000. When the judge finished with me, I felt smaller than an ant. He gave me advice - learn how to be a contractor or go back to work as an electrician - wow! that hurt.
Shortly after that, I went and got a contract. That did not help enough, as it had so many holes in it, that I could not hold back mist with it.
So, I hired a Construction Attorney. The best money I spent as an EC. I also learned a ton from him about keeping my money as well, and collection costs took a nose dive. I actually got some very nice jobs, as the customer thought I was so professional. Perception is very important as part of an EC's arsenal.
I also learned the more professional GCs and homeowners had more respect and confidence in a professional than a run of the mill electrician.
Sorry for the run-on, but this is a part of our culture that really needs attention.
Sometimes you don't see the bus because things change. I worked for a lady for years who was very happy with the work. Her husband lost his job and essentially our contract was finished and an end negotiated. I got cheated a little but it was still profitable overall. It was a VW bus.
Our construction attorney was only 500 for the first meeting and 1000 for all the contracts and a short lesson on how to prepare the contracts.
Say what? Isn't this an electrical contracting forum?
We ARE the EC.
Why would any of us care what another EC said,or wanted to do ,or anything?
If you know a lawyer, just call and ask for a reference. Failing that, call a local Home Builder's Association or other trade organization.
MAJOR RED FLAG: when the customer seems to know way more than you would think an ordinary person/civilian should know. when he starts making suggestions that make perfect sense. when his questions are overly detail oriented. RUN; HE HAS MET WITH TEN GUYS BEFORE YOU. HE HAS MULTIPLE QUOTES AND IS USING YOUR WORDS AS A SOURCE
TO BEAT DOWN THE OTHER EC HE HAS ALREADY SELECTED.
TO BEAT DOWN THE OTHER EC HE HAS ALREADY SELECTED.
GUNNING
Senior Member
- Location
- Gainesville, Florida
you wont give an estimate over the phone?
you wont give an estimate over the phone?
The caller thats asks for an estimate over the phone and then says "so you have to come out and see the job?"
If you dont go, and give an estimate over the phone, then you wont get the satisfaction of chuckling watching the big red bus go by.
you wont give an estimate over the phone?
The caller thats asks for an estimate over the phone and then says "so you have to come out and see the job?"
If you dont go, and give an estimate over the phone, then you wont get the satisfaction of chuckling watching the big red bus go by.
ultramegabob
Senior Member
- Location
- Indiana
I know exactly what you are talking about, I will no longer work for Asian business owners, it just isnt worth my blood pressure going up when I present the bill and have to argue about getting paid..... I guess you could double your bill and then let them haggle you down, but I dont like playing games with people, I just want to do the work, charge an honest rate and get paid.....
mivey
Senior Member
It probably is a cultural thing, but they can also be some of the most gracious people as well. I know folks from China that are just the salt of the earth. They lived under such oppression before coming here that it must give them a better appreciation of what is good. We take too much for granted here.
JacksonburgFarmer
Senior Member
- Location
- Butler County Ohio
Uh....well....the biggest one that comes to mind was my first "big job". It was about 7 months into my first year. GC that built (dont know if they still do or not...) hog barns. TWO WEEKS before hogs were schedualed to arrive, they had not hired a EC. When I asked who had handled their electrical before, and why they werent doing this one, the reply was " well, the last job didnt go so well and they dont want any more of our work"
That job was kenworth log truck....a bus would have been a pleasent suprise.....live and learn....
That job was kenworth log truck....a bus would have been a pleasent suprise
.....live and learn....hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
Very nice Pierre, I don't think I realized you were such an experienced EC.
Riograndeelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- Lakewood Colorado
how about we do not want you to pull a permit if you do the work.
or if you take credit cards is the first word out of the customers mouth when it come to big job around 6-10 thousand.
this is what the Guy at Home depot or Lowe's said how to wire it.
or if you take credit cards is the first word out of the customers mouth when it come to big job around 6-10 thousand.
this is what the Guy at Home depot or Lowe's said how to wire it.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
It most certainly is not, and we most certainly ARE NOT!
This is the electrical industry forum, and we are all members of that industry. We are ECs, and electrical inspectors, and home inspectors, and instructors, and engineers, and designers, and manufacturers, and vendors, with the occasional GC thrown in for good measure.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
If you mean that literally, then I hope you are uninjured, and that your vehicle is well on its way to a full recovery. Here is my philosophy on red flags:
mivey
Senior Member
No disaster rating for casus fortuitus?
- Status