Red Flags

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e57

e57

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco, CA
Cold Fusion said:
1. The EC or any of the electricians mentions anything like, "Well, this will meet code minimum."

2. The EC uses the phrase "value engineering"

Sign that a job is going to go well:
The E-foreman comes up and says, "Come over here and take a look at this. I want to show you a method we have used in the past."

cf
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Hate to say it but if you're hearing #1 & 2 often, and see the later as a sign things going to go well - then there some things you can do about that - JMSO :roll: #1 means you haven't met minimum before or elsewhere. #2 means the job is getting over-budget for one reason or another. And take a look at this means - we need to guide you to a cost effective solution...
 
Electron_Sam78

Electron_Sam78

Senior Member
Location
Palm Bay, FL
growler said:
There is a certian correlation between drivers to watch out for and customers to watch out for.

Overly aggressive drivers and overly aggressive customers should be on the red flag list. There are those that want to demand and not discuss things. Some people just have an attitude problem.
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That reminds me of a situation I had: A possible customer showed me his storefront that needed a heater installed right away (this was at about 7 oclock at night) because freezing temps were expected THAT NIGHT and he didn't want his water pipes to freeze up. I gave him my hourly rate and estimated time for completion and said I'd need a lift to get up the 20 feet to the ceiling. Well he didn't like my estimate or the idea of a lift and suggested using an extension ladder propped against a ceiling beam. He also said he'd only pay X amount and promptly left ot go to the bank to get that amount out to pay me. Needless to say I wan't there when he got back with his cash.
 
e57

e57

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco, CA
True story:
A guy I worked for when I was just new and fresh to the trade... We go on a service call for a business that has no power. We get there, and while he's talking to the owner about our rates - he tells me to take the panel cover off... The panel seems really new.... As I pull down the cover my boss say's "Oh - Mark - I just realized... Go ahead and put the panel cover back on and meet me back at the truck...." I thought that was weird... Really weird... So I'm back out at the truck and he comes out and tells me we might be back out tomorrow.... SO I ask - whats the deal? He says, "When you pulled the cover of it said in 4 inch letters "BANKRUPTCY" - and we MIGHT be back if he has a cashiers check in his hand tomorrow."
 
magictolight.com

magictolight.com

Senior Member
Location
Indianola, Iowa
"So and So Electric said they would do it for $X but I am for the small business man and I will give you the job if you can do it for that!"

By the way, so and so can do it for 1/2 the price I said it would cost!
 
D

__dan

Senior Member
mmm

mmm

mmm

I promised myself I would say away from this thread, self employed 20 years.

First I'll reiterate the good comments, get a construction contractor attorney to draw your contract language. And the comment about people being very consistent, good people are good to everyone generally, crooks screw everyone around and close to them.

The question is why or what to look for. i'm the trusting type, I miss the obvious. But when I get screwed I study why.

There is something called "addiction to power", which is very deep and common in the genetic code, basically a childish impulse. People who are addicted, screwing someone over is an exercise of their power, they get an emotional "rush" from it when the swindle goes through. Seen it many times. Read the link and understand. Read it twice if necessary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

There are captains and coronets. The coronet builds the nest. The captain, in the ancient prehistorical sense when these deep human predispositions were written in the genetic code, is a man who screws everyone, robs them blind with no hesitation or compunction.

It's easier to spot when you know what to look for. A captain gives an order and does not care if the order is right or wrong. He likely does not know, technically, right from wrong or how to exert discipline over his childish impulses. What he knows is that he gives the order and someone else pays the price for it. This he watches keenly. In a highly technical society, he is a smart dummy. A captain addicted to power is the worst. He seeks and gets a rush when his mistake cause pain to an other.

And no, this is not economics, finance. It is prehistorical genetic selection. The book on economics was written in 1954.
 
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ishium 80439

Senior Member
Location
Denver foothills via the Horn of Africa
I'm dealing w/ one right now. Besides the phone messages that last for ever (this guy will leave a message, get timed out, call back, get timed out....) the quote that should have had me changing my number was "I've had problems in the past with semi-competent electricians...". Well I guess I just turned into a semi-competent electrician because I actually want to get paid for the work I did.
 
growler

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
ishium 80439 said:
the quote that should have had me changing my number was "I've had problems in the past with semi-competent electricians...".
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Did you ask him why he hired semi-competent electricians and a name and number for these people so you would know just who he was talking about?

I find that when you ask for a company name they normally can't give you one. They were dealing with someone doing side work or a handyman type working under the radar.

Let him know that you are fully competent in "all" areas of electrical work to include collections. There is a reason people like to deal with the semi-competent, they know they have them over a barrel the first time they do something that's illegal. With a signed contract, permits and inspections passed there is not much they can do legally except pay.

I had a customer not long ago that wanted a cash discount. I informed them that cash doesn't do me any good because I still have to report the income and give them a receipt for the money. They try to convince me that it's better to be a crook and cheat on taxes but I don't fall for it. This is the price, pay me.

The customer must think that you are confident in what you are doing even when it comes time to get paid. People are naturally afraid of a confident person but show the first sign of weakness and they pounce on you. You present the bill and stand your ground.
 
S

satcom

Senior Member
growler said:
Did you ask him why he hired semi-competent electricians and a name and number for these people so you would know just who he was talking about?

I find that when you ask for a company name they normally can't give you one. They were dealing with someone doing side work or a handyman type working under the radar.

Let him know that you are fully competent in "all" areas of electrical work to include collections. There is a reason people like to deal with the semi-competent, they know they have them over a barrel the first time they do something that's illegal. With a signed contract, permits and inspections passed there is not much they can do legally except pay.

I had a customer not long ago that wanted a cash discount. I informed them that cash doesn't do me any good because I still have to report the income and give them a receipt for the money. They try to convince me that it's better to be a crook and cheat on taxes but I don't fall for it. This is the price, pay me.

The customer must think that you are confident in what you are doing even when it comes time to get paid. People are naturally afraid of a confident person but show the first sign of weakness and they pounce on you. You present the bill and stand your ground.
Click to expand...

Good view of some things to look for in a red flag customer.
 
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