Red on terminal bar?

[tonype]

Need help... 3 circuits that I normally see wired as MWBC have red conductors connected to the terminal bar (also double-lugged). I have never seen this...any insight would help.

 

[LarryFine]

240v outlet converted to 120v? I see three of them.

 

[jumper]

Look like old 3 wire circuit. Used red as a neutral or EGC.

 

[infinity]

As Jumper stated, since there already is a white conductor landed, red as the EGC is my guess.

 

[tkb]

I see paper around the wires, so I think it is AC cable.
Whoever wired this doesn’t understand that the jacket on AC is the EGC. :lol:

 

[Little Bill]

I see paper around the wires, so I think it is AC cable.
Whoever wired this doesn’t understand that the jacket on AC is the EGC. :lol:

NM also has paper in it. I'm on the "old 3-wire" band wagon, white= neutral, red=egc although they could have either stripped it or taped it green.

 

[hbiss]

But you can't re-identify a conductor smaller than #8 unless it's a traveler or the white of a 2 conductor cable used for 220, no?

-Hal

 

[jumper]

But you can't re-identify a conductor smaller than #8 unless it's a traveler or the white of a 2 conductor cable used for 220, no?

-Hal

Legally, no. Common sense, sure you can.

220 is load calc.

See 200.

 

[LarryFine]

220 is load calc.

I believe he meant volts.

"220, 221, whatever it takes."

 

[jumper]

I believe he meant volts.

"220, 221, whatever it takes."

Yes,mom.

Someday I have hopes of actually reading a post correctly before replying.:ashamed1:

Missed it completely.:slaphead:

 

[Little Bill]

But you can't re-identify a conductor smaller than #8 unless it's a traveler or the white of a 2 conductor cable used for 220, no?



-Hal

Actually it's #4 and larger

Legally, no. Common sense, sure you can.

220 is load calc.

See 200.

I think by "220" he was referring to 220V or what should be called 240V. Like using 10-2 and identifying the white as a hot (ungrounded) conductor.

 

[jumper]

Actually it's #4 and larger



I think by "220" he was referring to 220V or what should be called 240V. Like using 10-2 and identifying the white as a hot (ungrounded) conductor.

Hal was referring to the noodle in a multi conductor cable. 200.7 I think, not size dependent for that section.

And yeah, I got the voltage reference wrong.

We both missed!

Edit: I just reread Hal.:ashamed1:

I missed twice.:slaphead:

I am never coming back to this thread.....

 

[LarryFine]

Yes,mom.

That's MISTER Mom to you!

 

[tkb]

NM also has paper in it. I'm on the "old 3-wire" band wagon, white= neutral, red=egc although they could have either stripped it or taped it green.

NM also has a bare wire. I still think it is AC cable.

 

[infinity]

NM also has a bare wire. I still think it is AC cable.

That gets my vote.

 

[tonype]

One other question on this... is there any problem with the conductor cutting across the panel between the main and other breakers?

 

[infinity]

One other question on this... is there any problem with the conductor cutting across the panel between the main and other breakers?

Technically no, but it is ugly.

 

[hbiss]

Actually it's #4 and larger

I think by "220" he was referring to 220V or what should be called 240V. Like using 10-2 and identifying the white as a hot (ungrounded) conductor.

Yes, that's what I was trying to say. Was in a hurry.

-Hal

 

[tonype]

Technically no, but it is ugly.

Thanks!

 

[hbiss]

Legally, no. Common sense, sure you can.

220 is load calc.

See 200.

Ok, so haven't looked at this in many years and my memory isn't what it used to be anyway. Yes, Art. 200 refers to the grounded conductor (neutral). Side note: I don't agree with not allowing #6 and #8 to be re-identified as a neutral with white tape like you can with #4 and larger. For whatever reason they had, copper was cheap then. Having to stock several reels instead of only one can be costly today.

Now talking about grounds. What article talks about the grounding conductor and not allowing say a red #12 to be re-identified with green tape for a ground? Used to be common to do this with IG receptacles. Jog my memory.

-Hal