Reduced neutral to dryer

[FionaZuppa]

How much different is it from your real world antics in your thread here? Seems you were unwilling to go to any extra effort at all and saved about twelve cents of wire.
http://forums.mikeholt.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1617889

:roll:
not exactly Mr Action.
using #14 wasnt any "gonna risk it and let my insurance be there if i need it" scenario.
1) i had #12 & #14 black, green, and oh crap, also white
2) pulling 14 was just easier
3) no hazard exists
4) the outlets are permitted for ceiling fans (w/ light) only

your beef is what?

 

[growler]

My fault. Also my judgement as to whether I want to ​risk using 12 or white taping something else, especially if no inspector is going to look at it. I probably will do one or the other instead of driving 20 miles to the shop and 20 miles back just to get 30 feet of 10 AWG wire, if that is all there is holding up completing the job.

I assumed the OP wanted to know if it would be legal (code compliant) to reduce the neutral. So it shouldn't matter if an inspector looks at it. If I could find a way to show that it's clearly allowed to reduce the neutal I wouldn't have a problem with it, inspection or not.

My reasoning is this. When you install a receptacle it may be used for the next fifty years so there is no way to know what the load on the neurtal is going to be because the piece of equipment that gets plugged in may not even be designed yet. We have no idea what appliances and equipment will be used in the next few years and assume that a 30 amp receptacle will have a full sized neutral. With hard wired equipment you can know the neutral load and when a new piece of equipment is installed it's up to the installer to know if the circuit is of the correct size. With a receptacle anything on the market today or in the future that requires that size circuit may end up connected.

 

[mbrooke]

I assumed the OP wanted to know if it would be legal (code compliant) to reduce the neutral. So it shouldn't matter if an inspector looks at it. If I could find a way to show that it's clearly allowed to reduce the neutal I wouldn't have a problem with it, inspection or not.

My reasoning is this. When you install a receptacle it may be used for the next fifty years so there is no way to know what the load on the neurtal is going to be because the piece of equipment that gets plugged in may not even be designed yet. We have no idea what appliances and equipment will be used in the next few years and assume that a 30 amp receptacle will have a full sized neutral. With hard wired equipment you can know the neutral load and when a new piece of equipment is installed it's up to the installer to know if the circuit is of the correct size. With a receptacle anything on the market today or in the future that requires that size circuit may end up connected.

X2

Who is to say someone will not come out with a dryer that uses 2 120 volt 25 amp heating elements especially considering foreign accusations which are known for out of the box thinking no matter how infamous some ideas turn out?

https://www.cnet.com/news/its-official-ge-appliances-belongs-to-haier/

 

[ActionDave]

your beef is what?

Twelve is easier to work with than ten, there is nothing unsafe about a twelve neutral on a dryer. There is even some room for debate that it is allowed.

Fourteen on a standard twenty amp branch circuit is a clear violation.

 

[kwired]

I assumed the OP wanted to know if it would be legal (code compliant) to reduce the neutral. So it shouldn't matter if an inspector looks at it. If I could find a way to show that it's clearly allowed to reduce the neutal I wouldn't have a problem with it, inspection or not.

My reasoning is this. When you install a receptacle it may be used for the next fifty years so there is no way to know what the load on the neurtal is going to be because the piece of equipment that gets plugged in may not even be designed yet. We have no idea what appliances and equipment will be used in the next few years and assume that a 30 amp receptacle will have a full sized neutral. With hard wired equipment you can know the neutral load and when a new piece of equipment is installed it's up to the installer to know if the circuit is of the correct size. With a receptacle anything on the market today or in the future that requires that size circuit may end up connected.

I have already stated I think it is legal. I do expect some inspectors to question it just like some have here. I challenge all that question it to find anything that absolutely prohibits this. I have twice mentioned there is language in 215 as well as some in 230 (that ultimately sends you to a section in 250) that require an absolute minimum grounded conductor size for service and feeders but there is nothing in 210 that I have found that is similar. The conductor must at least be able to handle the load connected to it though. If you want to play the "we have a receptacle and who knows what will get plugged in card - I only buy that with NEMA 5-15 and 5-20 receptacles. A dryer receptacle has a pretty definite purpose, most of the time when I have seen them used for another purpose there is other code violations involved, like a 240 volt load that probably should be on a 15 or 20 amp circuit or a backfeed suicide cord for connecting a generator.

Twelve is easier to work with than ten, there is nothing unsafe about a twelve neutral on a dryer. There is even some room for debate that it is allowed.

Fourteen on a standard twenty amp branch circuit is a clear violation.

14 AWG on a 20 amp MWBC can be allowed IMO. Not on one feeding 5-15 or 5-20 receptacle outlets, but for other fixed outlets if the connected neutral can never exceed 15 amps I see it not being any different then the dryer scenario.

I probably run 12 AWG anyway just to keep the inspector from questioning it, but if I for some reason had to run 14, I'd defend that it is allowed.