Refridgerator Power

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iwire said:
Very true, but the automakers still don't give four wheel drive for free. :cool:
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But they do charge extra for an automatic transmission that costs the same to manufacture than a manual, IF you have a choice. Most drivers still perceive that automatics are more desirable. They are therefore willing to pay a premium and manufacturers are able to charge more for an auto equipped model. In certain high performance models, the perception is the opposite, hence the comparable (or even higher) cost of a manual equipped model.

I drive a 2000 GMC stick-shift, which was downright hard to find. I was looking at the 2007s and you can't get a manual anymore. They have a 'manumatic' push-button option, but slushbox automatics that can be manually shifted are still slushboxes, no matter how many gears or "sophistication" you put in them. Kind of like 'fine imported polyester.' After a month of playing, the novelty wears off and you leave it in D.

Sooo... If everyone cooperates it should be feasable to sell homeowners on 20A homeruns for each appliance. Just have to make it a 'statement' :D I'm sure the owner of that 'rustic' shanty would spring for it. Did they have the authentic crescent carved in the bathroom door?

Sorry if I come across as punchy, it was a tough day at work and I'm recovering with a combination of bad jokes and Christmas cheer. Time for bed...
 
Rampage_Rick said:
Sooo... If everyone cooperates it should be feasable to sell homeowners on 20A homeruns for each appliance. Just have to make it a 'statement'
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Of course this statement would just be a flat out lie.



I'm all for selling stuff to customers to make more money but I am not snake oil saleseman.
I won't tell people something is neccesary or better if it really is not.
 
electricmanscott said:
I'm all for selling stuff to customers to make more money but I am not snake oil saleseman.
I won't tell people something is neccesary or better if it really is not.
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Me too....that's why they get a 15A ckt for the fridge.
 
15-or 20 strictly my opinion

15-or 20 strictly my opinion

Most commercialy trained electricians will say anything less than a 20 is a hairbag. Most residentially trained electricians will say that a 15 is more than adequate. Once a commercial employee becomes an owner they will quickly go with the 15 when they are paying for the material. I typically figure 8-10 ckts for a modern kitchen and I will not touch one for less than 3000 so the cost is figured for this.
 
quogueelectric said:
Most commercialy trained electricians will say anything less than a 20 is a hairbag. Most residentially trained electricians will say that a 15 is more than adequate. Once a commercial employee becomes an owner they will quickly go with the 15 when they are paying for the material. I typically figure 8-10 ckts for a modern kitchen and I will not touch one for less than 3000 so the cost is figured for this.
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What is a hairbag?
 
cowboyjwc said:
I'm still surprised that the myth is still around that seperate circuits are required, by the NEC, for the DW and the GD.

So maybe 15 isn't enough and you run a 20 since you're using so much #12 anyways. I agree with Peter that there is no need for it.

But, to answer the OP I would probably install a seperate circuit for the fridge, just because.
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California Electical Code 210.11 requires a seperate circuit for both the dishwasher and garbage disposal. We typically run a 14/3 on a DP 15amp breaker to a split duplex outlet. I know the load doesn't require it, but the inspectors here do.

http://www.sunnyvale.ca.gov/NR/rdonlyres/45B95A61-1601-472C-B63D-8A9EFFE0B627/0/KitchenRemodel.pdf
 
electricguy61 said:
California Electical Code 210.11 requires a seperate circuit for both the dishwasher and garbage disposal. We typically run a 14/3 on a DP 15amp breaker to a split duplex outlet. I know the load doesn't require it, but the inspectors here do.

http://www.sunnyvale.ca.gov/NR/rdonlyres/45B95A61-1601-472C-B63D-8A9EFFE0B627/0/KitchenRemodel.pdf
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Sorry, but 210-11 doesn't say any such thing. Now that may be a local amendment because that's what they think it says. If you read 210-11(A) it may seem that's what it's refering to, but it still doesn't say that you are required to have two circuits.
 
cowboyjwc said:
Sorry, but 210-11 doesn't say any such thing. Now that may be a local amendment because that's what they think it says. If you read 210-11(A) it may seem that's what it's refering to, but it still doesn't say that you are required to have two circuits.
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Sunnyvale isn't the only city up in Northern Ca to require seperate cicruits for the GD/DW. I don't have access to the CEC, but evidently you do, and I don't doubt what you're saying about it being misinterpreted

What I know is that the these cities require seperate circuits, so perhaps that's where the "myth" that it is required by the NEC comes from.
 
electricguy61 said:
Sunnyvale isn't the only city up in Northern Ca to require seperate cicruits for the GD/DW. I don't have access to the CEC, but evidently you do, and I don't doubt what you're saying about it being misinterpreted

What I know is that the these cities require seperate circuits, so perhaps that's where the "myth" that it is required by the NEC comes from.
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See now we're starting to agree.:D

One of my inspectors use to make this same call and was very proud of himself, that he caught it, when he told me. I then asked him to show it to me in the NEC. He took his code book home and spent all weekend going through it before he came in on Monday and told me that I was correct.

His argument was that everyone does it and I agree, I even did it, because I thought you had to, but it is not required.

As confusing as the NEC can be at time, I love Article 210. It is Pretty straight forward on what it wants and where it wants it.
 
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