Refrigerators on a GFCI circuit.

[letgomywago]

What about the code requirement that we follow manufacturers' instructions when the two conflict?

Where's that??? Lol. Every appliance spec I've seen says "not recommended on gfi" and then the delivery guys says it voids the warranty.

 

[costanzo]

How are you providing GFCI protection for the refrigerator? The GFCI receptacle cannot be behind the frig so do you just use a GFCI circuit breaker? They do make WiFi GFCI's that tell you when they trip but that would need to be installed in a readily accessible location.

GFTA1-W

<p>White - 15 Amp, 125 Volt Receptacle/Outlet, 20 Amp Feed-Through, Tamper-Resistant, Self-test SmartlockPro GFCI with Audible Trip Alert, Monochromatic, back and side wired, nylon wallplate/faceplate, screws and self-grounding clip included</p>

www.leviton.com

We're on 2020 NEC. We use a dual function GFCI/AFCI breaker in the panel.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

What about the code requirement that we follow manufacturers' instructions when the two conflict?

All that says is that you cannot install that equipment in a location where the NEC requires GFCI protection.

 

[ggunn]

Requiring that the fridge be on a GFCI circuit seems silly to me. My house is older (1987 vintage) and all the GFCI protected outlets other than one we added later are on the same circuit that goes through an outlet in the front bathroom. It sometimes trips for unknown reasons, and before I put a night light on one of the outlets as an indicator it sometimes would be off for hours or days before anyone noticed. We were out of town recently for a week or so, and when we came home, the GFCI had tripped at some point while we were gone. If our fridge had been on the GFCI circuit we would have had a real mess on our hands.

 

[letgomywago]

Requiring that the fridge be on a GFCI circuit seems silly to me. My house is older (1987 vintage) and all the GFCI protected outlets other than one we added later are on the same circuit that goes through an outlet in the front bathroom. It sometimes trips for unknown reasons, and before I put a night light on one of the outlets as an indicator it sometimes would be off for hours or days before anyone noticed. We were out of town recently for a week or so, and when we came home, the GFCI had tripped at some point while we were gone. If our fridge had been on the GFCI circuit we would have had a real mess on our hands.

That's why some states have amended this.

Something we don't think about but power is intermittent in much of the world and is fairly new here. We don't need it is what it comes down to but it makes our lives so much easier. It's now our "right" to always have electricity. So when told something might turn off if there's an issue we get a lot of grief.

Best solution would be manufacturers get their heads out of the gutter of 96 nec and finally provide products that work on new code required afci and gfci.

 

[Rick 0920]

Thinking outside the box here for a moment. Would a single-pole switch behind the refrigerator and a 4" sq. box installed on the surface work if you hard wired a listed appliance cord to the outlet? The circuit would still need to be AFCI protected since 210.12 refers to "outlets" but 210.8 is limited to "receptacles" in kitchens.

 

[letgomywago]

Thinking outside the box here for a moment. Would a single-pole switch behind the refrigerator and a 4" sq. box installed on the surface work if you hard wired a listed appliance cord to the outlet? The circuit would still need to be AFCI protected since 210.12 refers to "outlets" but 210.8 is limited to "receptacles" in kitchens.

Voids the listing since they are moulded cord not so cord and not listed instructions for hardwiring

 

[Rick 0920]

Voids the listing since they are moulded cord not so cord and not listed instructions for hardwiring

Lets say my cord gets damaged by rolling the fridge on it. Can I replace it with a listed appliance pigtail or do I have to buy a new refrigerator?

 

[letgomywago]

Lets say my cord gets damaged by rolling the fridge on it. Can I replace it with a listed appliance pigtail or do I have to buy a new refrigerator?

Not that I would do this but probably need a new fridge or factory service person to replace cord

 

[Rick 0920]

Prior to 2023 for Dwellings the receptacle would only have to be GFCI if it served the countertop outlet. In 2023 GFCI was required in kitchens....

Gus, Something I'm wondering about, #6 (kitchens) in my 2023 NEC has been revised from 2020 by removal of "serving countertop surfaces" but there is no shaded text or text deletion or new material symbols to identify this. Is it possible that this could've been overlooked by the CMP? Do you think maybe they didn't intend to change this at all? Does anyone else's 2023 NEC show a shaded text or revision to 210.8 #6?

 

[Rick 0920]

Not that I would do this but probably need a new fridge or factory service person to replace cord

I'm just seeing how people could get around this silly requirement and still be code compliant. A disconnect with a #10 whip for the dryer could do the same thing and avoid an expensive 2 pole GFCI breaker for the requirement of the dryer receptacle.

 

[letgomywago]

I'm just seeing how people could get around this silly requirement and still be code compliant. A disconnect with a #10 whip for the dryer could do the same thing and avoid an expensive 2 pole GFCI breaker for the requirement of the dryer receptacle.

Hardwire works for stoves in basements though.

 

[jim dungar]

Lets say my cord gets damaged by rolling the fridge on it. Can I replace it with a listed appliance pigtail or do I have to buy a new refrigerator?

Absolutely you can repair and replace, but you cannot change it. Cutting off a cord end and putting the flexible cord into a box is a change from a plug and receptacle connection.

 

[letgomywago]

Absolutely you can repair and replace, but you cannot change it. Cutting of a cord end and putting the flexible cord into a box is a change from a plug and receptacle connection.

The cord they use isn't SO cord so a SO cord end isn't listed to replace it. You'd need a factory supplied cord.

 

[jim dungar]

The cord they use isn't SO cord so a SO cord end isn't listed to replace it. You'd need a factory supplied cord.

Yes you need a Listed appliance cord, but it can be field replaced. Of course, warranty issues would be between you and the manufacturer.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Gus, Something I'm wondering about, #6 (kitchens) in my 2023 NEC has been revised from 2020 by removal of "serving countertop surfaces" but there is no shaded text or text deletion or new material symbols to identify this. Is it possible that this could've been overlooked by the CMP? Do you think maybe they didn't intend to change this at all? Does anyone else's 2023 NEC show a shaded text or revision to 210.8 #6?

There is no shaded text because they did not change the text they simply deleted "— where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces". They only indicate, using dot, when they delete a complete section, but do not indicate deleted words like happened here.

 

[Rick 0920]

There is no shaded text because they did not change the text they simply deleted "— where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces". They only indicate, using dot, when they delete a complete section, but do no indicate deleted words like happened here.

So are you telling me that it wasn't revised???

 

[don_resqcapt19]

So are you telling me that it wasn't revised???

How would you get that out of what I posted ?????

It was simply not revised in a way that would result in the NFPA shading text or providing any other indication of a change.

However the rule was completely changed by deleting text. The deleted text changed the rule from only applying to receptacles that serve countertops to applying to all receptacles in the kitchen.

 

[Rick 0920]

How would you get that out of what I posted ?????

It was simply not revised in a way that would result in the NFPA shading text or providing any other indication of a change.

However the rule was completely changed by deleting text. The deleted text changed the rule from only applying to receptacles that serve countertops to applying to all receptacles in the kitchen.

I understand the definition of "revise" and "revision" as being changed from its previous form. I thought that if the CMP's made any revisions to prior sections that they would shade the text. But I also know that my definitions of words are not always the definitions of the NEC.

 

[gene6]

Hey guys this is not a GFCI issue, its a nation wide manufacturer issue, the compressors for many new brands are all made in the same factory and leak current on the equipment ground. We worked on a new 12 unit retirement complex that was to be furnished, and every single fridge eventually tripped the GFCI, I have been reading fridge posts on here to get ideas because they kept sending me there to swap the GFCI, try a GFCI breaker ..... The factory service fella is going nuts says he is replacing "junk with better junk" owners are now involved in a class action suit against the manufacturer. They have replaced two fridges with older models from a used appliance store.
Check out this video on it: