Remodel Work

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Little Bill

Little Bill

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Tennessee NEC:2017
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Semi-Retired Electrician
A couple of questions......

If you are doing a remodel, can you mix regular NM with the newer NM-B? The wiring would only be for receptacles that are existing and wall finish would have to be removed to rewire them.

Can you staple #14 & #12 NM to the bottom of floor joists in a basement if there is a dropped grid ceiling?
 
Locally, if the wall cover has been removed our inspectors require the area to meet present Code so it would have to be NM-B (but that's local..unsure about your area in question)
Again, locally, IF it's a finished basement we are allowed to run NM on the ceiling joists above a drop ceiling. A drop ceiling in an unfinished basement would required running boards or bored joists,.
 
The basement had some receptacles existing. They are making it into an apartment of sorts. Kitchen, one bedroom, bath, and living room. The walls with the existing receptacles are finished and won't be disturbed. All the new walls will get NM-B, but it would be a mess to re-feed the existing receptacles with NM-B. I can't cut boxes out since the walls are furred out with 2x2 and the boxes are using mud rings. There is foam board between the 2x2's.

I want to put junction boxes above the dropped ceiling and splice onto the old NM.
Only thing I can come up with regarding old NM is for lighting. The lighting needs 90 deg conductors and the old NM is only 60 deg rated. However, all the old NM will be going to receptacles. All the lighting is getting new NM-B.
 
FWIW: I checked with 2 other State inspectors and there interpretation, based on State policy, is that: wall cover removed = bring up to today's Code including NM-B.
 
If walls are open and wiring fully exposed why not replace with the new NM-B? Or, is what you're attempting to do is to avoid adding AFCI?
augie47 said:
if the wall cover has been removed our inspectors require the area to meet present Code so it would have to be NM-B
Click to expand...
That is a requirement here too.

I read a recent article about life of various electrical equipment and even wire it stated had a life about 40-50 yrs for insulated wire.
Don't recall when the last time the old NM was still being installed, but got to be getting close. Seen a lot of NM that was very brittle and the insulation was breaking when trying to wire up a new device. We still have a lot of the old cloth wrap NM too, and when removed and just the act of bending to coil up to dispose of, I would hear cracking from the insulation, even seen this effect on the old plastic coated NM.
So was this REALLY safe to leave in place if "untouched"? And for how much longer?
 
augie47 said:
FWIW: I checked with 2 other State inspectors and there interpretation, based on State policy, is that: wall cover removed = bring up to today's Code including NM-B.
Click to expand...
What if you open one wall with one receptacle, fed in and out through the studs on both sides?

How and where would you transition? It seems the extra splicing would not be an improvement.
 
Fred B said:
So was this REALLY safe to leave in place if "untouched"? And for how much longer?
Click to expand...
If you don't disturb it, the conductors are still covered by the insulation and are still properly spaced.

In ceiling boxes, where most insulation crumbles, I remove as much as I can and slide on new insulation.
 
Once again, the walls with the exit receptacles are not open. The basement had drywall around the outside walls with receptacles. Now they are ADDING walls, dividing the space into rooms. So part of the rooms have old NM and would be a mess to get new wire in. ALL the new walls are getting new NM-B. I am not trying to skirt the requirements for AFCI or GFCI. All circuits will be new, into a new subpanel. I am just trying to complete the rooms for electrical and need to splice on to the existing NM.
 
I don't see a problem with what your doing. If you do a panel change your allowed to reconnect all the old circuits so why can't the old NM be reused if there is nothing wrong with it? The old NM is not being disturbed and the wiring is existing. NMB for the lights I agree that needs to be done.

What happens if you extend an existing NM circuit to add a receptacle? I agree if knob and tube can be reconnected NM can as well as long as you don't use NM @75 degrees.

I don't know how long NMB has been around, but I don't think it's anything like 40-50 years.
 
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