Required Receptacle Locations
- Thread starter Semuskie
- Start date
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electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Column. Wall. Nope, not the same. No receptacle required.
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
point to a spot on colum and go either direction horizontal. If it is 24 or more inches to where you started add receptacle. 210.52 does not have an aception to leave it out. Might be useless wall to you but is a wall. If you can't run wire down it then box it out.
NEC selected 24 inches not me.
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
for fun i will ask my inspector friend his opinion.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
But nowhere in Article 210 does it instruct you to measure around a round column. The verbiage is specific to measuring around corners. If there are no corners how can it be required?
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
there are 360 corners way i see it. Using your logic i could have a structure in the middle of a huge room that is round and circ. of 30 feet but its not a wall. If your inspector lets it fly then great but here you will get taged. It is something you might place a chair and table next to. Now where do i plug lamp in?
iMuse97
Senior Member
- Location
- Chicagoland
so if I have an outside curve of a radius greater than say 3 inches, I don't have to call it a wall?
BTW, I've put receptacles in columns but not as a requirement of the inspector.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
So, the architecture has to change to suit the wiring?
I say it's not required anyway, but to have to modify the column so a receptacle is required is silly.
Rick Christopherson
Senior Member
Don't get me wrong. I feel the outlet should be placed there as an end-user convenience, but not because it is code-mandated. It is not code-mandated, because the column is not a wall space.
210.52 (A)(1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed such that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.
(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
A column is not a wall and is therefore not a wall space. If you enclose that column within a framed structure, then it becomes a column within a wall, but not until. The column, by its very nature, constitutes a broken floor line, in that it is freestanding from the wall space of the room.
If you wrap the column in a decorative fascia, it is still just a column. It doesn't become a wall space until it is framed out as a wall, such as is common with a pipe chase adjacent to a column.
You don't need to be an architect to know the difference between a column and a wall space, and a $2 attorney is all it would take to successfully argue the point.
210.52 (A)(1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed such that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.
(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
A column is not a wall and is therefore not a wall space. If you enclose that column within a framed structure, then it becomes a column within a wall, but not until. The column, by its very nature, constitutes a broken floor line, in that it is freestanding from the wall space of the room.
If you wrap the column in a decorative fascia, it is still just a column. It doesn't become a wall space until it is framed out as a wall, such as is common with a pipe chase adjacent to a column.
You don't need to be an architect to know the difference between a column and a wall space, and a $2 attorney is all it would take to successfully argue the point.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Maybe you do. Some electricians don't know the difference.
RIP common sense. :roll:
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Location
- Massachusetts
OK imagine a room that for some reason has a plumbing chase right up the middle of it, this chase is 24" square.
Outlet required or not?
I agree with Jim W. for the very reasons that you posted. If the column is big enough it will measure over 24 inches of unbroken floor line. I believe Jim W. also said the code "says what it says"... and you have posted what it says.
I don't know how this column is constructed, nor if it makes any difference. Where does it say in your quote of 210.52 that the wall space has to be framed? How about a log wall, concrete block wall, pilaster, or column?
And finally... please post a list of folks on this forum ( or in the world for that matter ) who have more common sense than Jim W?
Last edited:
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
No, Jim, you have a column.
And when you do that, you are going around a column.
Don't start reading an article in the middle. Start with the title line. 210.52(A)(2) begins with "wall space." Thus, "no wall" means "no wall space." A bit later on they explicitly include room dividers. They do not explicitly name columns.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
And the answers are, in order:
- A log WALL is a wall.
- A concrete block WALL is a wall.
- A pilaster is not a wall.
- A column is not a wall.
- Location
- Massachusetts
And I agree with all those statements.
But I do not think it address the OPs question.:grin:
If he has 7" X 7" square column he does not need a receptacle.
If he has a 3" round column wrapped with a 7" x 7" wall he needs a receptacle.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Section 210.52(A)(2) Wall space as used in this section, a wall space shall include the following: 210.52(A)(2)(1) states any space 2' or more in width (including space measured around corners). If some jursidictions do not see it that way so be it but several do and best to check with AHJ if questions arise.
elohr46
Senior Member
- Location
- square one
I agree, he built a wall around the column that is more than 24" wide. A recept. is needed.
- Status