Residential Basement wiring questions

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tallguy said:
Two different viewpoints here, and I'd disagree with both. . . True up to a point. There are certain circuits (SABC or "small appliance branch circuits") which must be included in your plan and which must be 20A, regardless of the load. See 210.52(B)...
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You will notice that we are talking about the basement. There are generally very few SABCs installed in basements.
 
charlie b said:

You will notice that we are talking about the basement. There are generally very few SABCs installed in basements.
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Yes, I know... did my penance back at post #24! :wink:
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
Well, is it better to have 3 - 20a circuits, or 4 - 15a circuits?
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I will take the 4 - 15s over 3 - 20s assuming the same total number of receptacles supplied by either set up.

If a trip happens less equipment will be effected.
 
ItsHot said:
Anyway my point being on down the road at a point in time you will be better off with 12 gauge. Example.. costumer calls for me to install small overhead heater in bathroom/ No go.. 14 gauge wire,heater requires 20 amp circuit.
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So what?
How are we supposed to know (or even care) what a HO will do in the future?
(90.1(b))

Run the 14's....get a service call later :wink:

Besides....you can't back-stab #12 on a recept.


:: ducking and running::
:cool:
 
cschmid said:
Mine has two 20 amp and UPS power supplies on them..I can even trip the ups with my surround system.. huh what you say...
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Here's what I say: I gave my HT system a 4-space/8-circuit 50a 120/240v sub-panel, with six 15a circuits: (1) unswitched electronics, (2) switched electronics, (3) 300w x 2 amp, (4) 200w x 5 amp, (5) two 300w sub amps, (6) CRT projector), plus two more 15a circuits reserved for future lighting projects.

I used a 4-pole 25a contactor (controlled by the pre/pro's 12v control output, which controls a 12v reed relay that controls a 120v 10a relay, which in turn controls the contactor) that switches circuits 2,3,4, and 5. I've thought about adding a UPS, but haven't really had the need; my power goes out less than once a year.
 
mdshunk said:
On this 12 vs 14 issue in residential work, I fall someplace in between most guys. I do all my receptacle circuits in 12 gauge. I do my lighting circuits in 14 gauge. I run my dedicated 15 and 20 amp circuits with whatever the equipment requires. When that's unknown, I err with 12 gauge. When it's known, I right size the cable.
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Agreed 100%. :)
 
okay non scientific poll time...how many electricians buy and use the recepticles that you back stab? How many electricians do not use the back stabs? I do not back stab.. as I would rather be iin your face..(he he)
 
This will take some time to read:
Back Stabbed Recepticals

The page here at Mike's site ran on for 4 pages.

Within the above link is a link to another site's thread that ran on for about 11 pages.


Happy reading :D
 
cschmid said:
okay non scientific poll time...how many electricians buy and use the recepticles that you back stab? How many electricians do not use the back stabs? I do not back stab.. as I would rather be iin your face..(he he)
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Just a suggestion... start a new thread with a poll.
 
cschmid said:
okay but never done a poll on this site.. would someone want to explain how I get it to automaticly calculate the findings as I have seen on other polls..
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It's all done automatically...you create a poll, pick how many choices people get to pick from and that's that.
Computers are amazing :D
 
To get back on track. As the homeowner you are responsible to check with the local authority having jurisdiction (Building Dept) as to any code requirements with respect to finishing the basement before starting work.

Depending on the local building code, you may be creating a "habitable room". The current International Residential Building Code requires that all habitable rooms have an emergency egress window (or door). You may be required to put in a window well along with an egress compatible window.

Additionally, you may be required to insulate the stud cavities depending on where you live and the local energy conservation code.

As to the electrical requirements: The outlets and lighting should be installed per the NEC. This allows #14 wire except where #12 is required by the NEC. (Previously discussed). Outlet spacing should be in compliance with 210.52. (And the outlets serving the "wet bar" you failed to mention in the pool room should be protected by GFCI).

Until such time that the walls are drywalled, the outlets must be protected by GFCI per 210.8(A)(5).

As to the exposed NM cable in the studs, it should not be a problem unless they are in a location subject to damage or abuse. This may be a judgmental decision by the electrical inspector.

After all that, it all boils down to taking the time to call the local Building Department and asking a few questions. Most inspectors will be happy to meet with you and work through the project with you so that there should be no surprises at inspection time.
 
Wellcome ecox, good way to sum it up.

I'll stick with #12 myself. Yes, using #14 saves you money in copper and is easier to work with. But don't forget the smaller wires in your wall have higher resistance and will cost you slightly more in utility bills over the years.
 
S'mise said:
Wellcome ecox, good way to sum it up.

I'll stick with #12 myself. Yes, using #14 saves you money in copper and is easier to work with. But don't forget the smaller wires in your wall have higher resistance and will cost you slightly more in utility bills over the years.
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Someone or another has a cost/benefit analysis somewhere... maybe in one of Celtic's spreadsheets? At any rate -- with today's copper prices, it just doesn't pay for itself.
 
S'mise said:
Wellcome ecox, good way to sum it up.

I'll stick with #12 myself. Yes, using #14 saves you money in copper and is easier to work with. But don't forget the smaller wires in your wall have higher resistance and will cost you slightly more in utility bills over the years.
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This is one of those old wives tails that needs to be stopped. How do you figure that the smaller wire is going to add to your energy costs? If the circuit is loaded to the point that voltage drop is even noticeable (unusual in a typical residential circuit) you will get less output from any resisitive load, but your energy consumption will be the same. The lumen output on an incandscent load may drop slightly, but the bulb will NOT consume more amperage in order to maintain the same output. A motor load will consume slightly hire amperage in order to try to maintain the rated HP output, but lamps and other resistive loads will just consume fewer amps mainataining the same total wattage consumption.
 
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