Residential Code Question

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electricsimmons

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300.15 ex: B, E , J

Issue with inspector on recessed cans and wafer lights: see links for specs of the products I use.
https://tamliteusa.com/spec_sheets/CLY6-CCTA-72-DYNAGEN.pdf
https://tamliteusa.com/spec_sheets/ROUGH-HB-44-DYNAGEN.pdf

When roughing our houses, we install the housing for these lights and run our wires.
Once we go back and trim the house we connect wires to cans/wafers.

I am being failed for wire nuts not being placed on the wires in the housing at rough inspection. between the rough and the trim phases.

The way I'm interpreting the code is that if I'm using this type of housing, I do not have to wire nut these.
 
Ponchik

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
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Electronologist
So the inspector is saying you need to use wire nuts instead of push in connectors because the cans are in a wet location?
IMO, it is not valid unless the instructions of the recessed can ask for it.

Ask the inspector for a NEC code reference.
 
E

electricsimmons

Member
No, on rough inspection the wires must have wire nuts on them at every location.

Their response is every wire must be in a box ref 300.15, but my reasoning is the exceptions for 300.15, B, E, J.
 
petersonra

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
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engineer
electricsimmons said:
No, on rough inspection the wires must have wire nuts on them at every location.

Their response is every wire must be in a box ref 300.15, but my reasoning is the exceptions for 300.15, B, E, J.
Click to expand...
Are they objecting to you not connecting it up at the time of rough inspection? If so, the code does not specify anything at all about what is inspected in rough versus final inspection. That is an AHJ rule.

Are they complaining that the connection is not a wire nut? The code does not require any specific style of connector.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
It sounds like the wiring gets done at the end with the trim. There is just a housing bracket with no way to attach electrical to it until trim out but the inspector wants wirenuts on the end of the cable. I have no idea why he wants that but he is being ridiculous, IMO. That is not what the code states.

Golly why do these guys get carried away like that. The led driver just sits on the ceiling and the nm cables gets connected to it.
 
T

Tulsa Electrician

Senior Member
Location
Tulsa
Occupation
Electrician
I say if installed per instructions. To bad.
Now if he ask your mounting the driver to ? If there just laying up there you may have an issue. So when he ask for you to pull one down be careful.
I would think 300.15 e should do it.
I would show them the install one time to keep the peace. Tell them to pick one and show your being code compliant.
 
Fred B

Fred B

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Location
Upstate, NY
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Electrician
electricsimmons said:
No, on rough inspection the wires must have wire nuts on them at every location.

Their response is every wire must be in a box ref 300.15, but my reasoning is the exceptions for 300.15, B, E, J.
Click to expand...
Those "exceptions" only show these that the fixture or equipment can have or be an integral box and a seperate box would not be needed. If the inspectors reference is related to th LV side, there is no means to nut that.
I can understand inspectors desire that conductors that will be "covered" by time of final that they be in an enclosure or capped. I've seen many times that a fixture was failed to be cut out and the "hot" uncapped wire would be just laying in the ceiling or wall cavity. Power was turned on and go in to check the installation and remembering "wasn't there supposed to be a fixture there?", and there was none. And a "hot wire" just laying there unprotected.
Dennis Alwon said:
It sounds like the wiring gets done at the end with the trim. There is just a housing bracket with no way to attach electrical to it until trim out but the inspector wants wirenuts on the end of the cable. I have no idea why he wants that but he is being ridiculous, IMO. That is not what the code states.

Golly why do these guys get carried away like that. The led driver just sits on the ceiling and the nm cables gets connected to it.
Click to expand...
Technically, while common practice is to allow the drivers to just lay on the ceiling, It should be fastened in place and would be a violation of 314.23, thus the slots or holes for screws. The other type of driver that is integral to the fixture, that type is by design meeting a component of 314.23.
 
tortuga

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
electricsimmons said:
No, on rough inspection the wires must have wire nuts on them at every location.

Their response is every wire must be in a box ref 300.15, but my reasoning is the exceptions for 300.15, B, E, J.
Click to expand...
300.15 is about when boxes are required, the wafer lights come with a junction box so its obviously required 110.3(B).
Since its designed to be concealed, the included junction box, needs to be made up and grounded prior to rough inspection.

See 314.23(C) and 410.30(A)
1637370157466.png
Some of the installation instructions that come with these say the mounting of the "junction box is optional".
These wafer lights are all supposedly listed to UL 1598

Paragraph 11.3.2 of UL standard 1598 states:
“The wiring compartment (junction box) where the branch circuit connections to the luminaire are made shall be integral to the luminaire or securely fastened to its enclosure or frame. ”

Without the junction box being mounted it is only secured by the class 2 cable that connects it to the wafer light.
Its up to the AHJ if they think this is really "securely fastened".
The UL standard 1598 has no way of testing this scenario as its usually covered by the NEC 314.23(C) and 410.30(A).

Hope this sheds some insight.
Cheers
and
happy Friday.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
infinity said:
Maybe it's just me but this is confusing so a few photos of this installation would certainly help.
Click to expand...


I think this is the rough in kit

ROUGH6-HB-IMG_1534279567.jpg

And this is the trim kit


CLY8-IMG_1562607315.jpg
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
infinity said:
That is why I suggested some photos. Those LED drivers can be completely installed on the rough by removing the wafer which is installed when the ceiling is finished.
Click to expand...

Absolutely... That is what we did when we used them but you need to make sure the cable from the driver will reach.

There are some that are retro and would be hard to mount these drivers and in some cases impossible with 3" or 2" cans.
 
qcroanoke

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
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Sorta retired........
infinity said:
Yes, with the 4" wafers I was still able to mount the box to a close joist in an existing ceiling.
Click to expand...
I had 3 inch I used in our bath but I did not secure the drivers. Never occurred to me to do that. Also the ceiling had no insulation in it so I wasn't concerned about them laying on the insulation .
 
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T

Tulsa Electrician

Senior Member
Location
Tulsa
Occupation
Electrician
Something you may want to consider. Since your using the rough in housings no reason the driver can not be mounted to that. Just like the old line voltage cans. This way your also compliant with securing the nm cable. This way you can be in compliance with your AHJ. This will also expedite your trim out time. Plus he/ she might just like your install in a work man like manner.
One can discuss with the AHJ on rough insp. I have found a simple conversation some times makes a Hugh difference.
 
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