Residential electrical procedures and PPE

[171FIREFIGHTER]

I’ve had different districts of Georgia Power tell me different things. In one district “Can’t you pull it? We will be back out to reseal it.” Others, “You electricians need to quit pulling our meters”

Here We pull the meters, even do new service without power company coming out, they will simply come out and reseal meter once inspection is passed

 

[Buck Parrish]

Here We pull the meters, even do new service without power company coming out, they will simply come out and reseal meter once inspection is passed

Yep, we've done hundreds of them that way. Stand on a fiber glass ladder cut it loose. I tell the guys not to get to comfortable. I tell them to do continuity checks before grabbing the hot wire and split bolting it to the load on the mast going down the pole.

 

[171FIREFIGHTER]

Yep, we've done hundreds of them that way. Stand on a fiber glass ladder cut it loose. I tell the guys not to get to comfortable. I tell them to do continuity checks before grabbing the hot wire and split bolting it to the load on the mast going down the pole.

Yes I agree with you, It just shocked me that so many do require poco to come out. Here it would be about 350 for them to come disconnect and another 350 for reconnection

 

[SSDriver]

We have poco come out and remove their fancy locks. We do all the work, disconnect, reconnect. They come out after inspection to put their lock back on. I don't wear any special gloves when installing split bolts. I'm either on the roof, fiberglass ladder, or rubber mat.

 

[171FIREFIGHTER]

We have poco come out and remove their fancy locks. We do all the work, disconnect, reconnect. They come out after inspection to put their lock back on. I don't wear any special gloves when installing split bolts. I'm either on the roof, fiberglass ladder, or rubber mat.

Do they charge you to do this?

 

[SSDriver]

Do they charge you to do this?

No charge from any of the local power companies. We have them remove the lock the day before we do the work. They have those fancy barrel style lock rings.

 

[171FIREFIGHTER]

No charge from any of the local power companies. We have them remove the lock the day before we do the work. They have those fancy barrel style lock rings.

Ok I understand at least there isn't a charge. Ours have those cheap little plastic and wire clips

 

[SSDriver]

Ok I understand at least there isn't a charge. Ours have those cheap little plastic and wire clips

On some older panels that haven't been upgraded to smart meters we still see those wire clips or lead/wire seals. I just notify the poco and cut them off.

 

[Buck Parrish]

No charge from any of the local power companies. We have them remove the lock the day before we do the work. They have those fancy barrel style lock rings.

I have a key to that fancy barrel lock - but don't tell any one.

Let me be clear. I'm only doing it for the convivence of time and getting the power back on before night fall. I still get permits and inspections where required.
A lot of service upgrades is organizing who's coming when.

A Duke power engineer use to recommend us. But his superiors told him that's not fair or some thing. We were doing so many upgrades.,

In some cases I have assured customers I would get them back on that evening. I have sat in customers driveways many late nights waiting for the power company to come and turn it back on. I wanted to be there if their was a problem. Most cases they were renters, some one else was paying.

Then when it's turned on I go check every thing out. Make sure the heat / AC, water pump every thing is running and their happy.

 

[171FIREFIGHTER]

I have a key to that fancy barrel lock - but don't tell any one.

Let me be clear. I'm only doing it for the convivence of time and getting the power back on before night fall. I still get permits and inspections where required.
A lot of service upgrades is organizing who's coming when.

A Duke power engineer use to recommend us. But his superiors told him that's not fair or some thing. We were doing so many upgrades.,

In some cases I have assured customers I would get them back on that evening. I have sat in customers driveways many late nights waiting for the power company to come and turn it back on. I wanted to be there if their was a problem. Most cases they were renters, some one else was paying.

Then when it's turned on I go check every thing out. Make sure the heat / AC, water pump every thing is running and their happy.

That's why I like that We don't have to get power company involved becuase We can guarantee they have their power back on by evening.

We simply go on their website make them aware We are installing new service, they provide us upgrade number for inspector to go online to Make them aware it passed inspection and they come out at their convenience and relock meter pan. Inspections are sometimes next day or the following day but customer has power as quick as we're able to change everything out and reconnect to poco side

 

[Little Bill]

We can't pull meters or cut service drops here anymore, period! It's not too bad of a wait for POCO (most of them) to come out. If it is a scheduled shut down, they will set a time and usually are on time or early.
I know a couple of lineman that will allow me to pull a meter and they will call the office and tell them they did it.
I don't know how they would enforce it, but they told us they would fine us for pulling a meter or cutting the drop. I really don't want to fool with it anyway!

 

[171FIREFIGHTER]

We can't pull meters or cut service drops here anymore, period! It's not too bad of a wait for POCO (most of them) to come out. If it is a scheduled shut down, they will set a time and usually are on time or early.
I know a couple of lineman that will allow me to pull a meter and they will call the office and tell them they did it.
I don't know how they would enforce it, but they told us they would fine us for pulling a meter or cutting the drop. I really don't want to fool with it anyway!

What are the fees associated with it if any? What is their turn around to restore service?

 

[Little Bill]

What are the fees associated with it if any? What is their turn around to restore service?

No fees, most will come within an hour of a call to restore, depending on where the lineman is or how busy they are. If I'm doing a panel change or service upgrade, I will usually call before I am finished, allowing what time I think it will take me to finish, so they are there close to the time that I'm ready for them.

 

[mtnelect]

In California it is pretty expensive, since Prop 13. They have to charge for every little thing. It depends on what city you are dealing with. In Glendale charges $350 for a 100 amp and $500 for a 200 amp. While the Southern California Edison Company doesn't charge. The turnaround time is usually one day.

 

[scottwnuwer]

There lies within the live work permit requirement. If you are removing the dead front to replace a breaker, then you are exposing the line lugs, back to wearing the PPE. New panels now have barriers that are installed after termination to mitigate that exposure.

I need an EEWP each time I remove the electrical panel cover to repair or install circuits NEAR energized parts (opening the main breaker, line side lugs are still energized)? Is it common to fill out an EEWP on a regular basis for a residential environment? This appears to open a floodgate of documented paperwork (shock hazard assessment, risk, arc flash, etc...) This all seems very unnecessary with residential electrical, but I will adhere if this is what is required of an employer. I imagine the PPE would be the same regardless of the service barrier, even though it probably helps with shock protection. How do you determine PPE on the secondary side of the transformer, line side of the main breaker?

 

[hillbilly1]

I need an EEWP each time I remove the electrical panel cover to repair or install circuits NEAR energized parts (opening the main breaker, line side lugs are still energized)? Is it common to fill out an EEWP on a regular basis for a residential environment? This appears to open a floodgate of documented paperwork (shock hazard assessment, risk, arc flash, etc...) This all seems very unnecessary with residential electrical, but I will adhere if this is what is required of an employer. I imagine the PPE would be the same regardless of the service barrier, even though it probably helps with shock protection. How do you determine PPE on the secondary side of the transformer, line side of the main breaker?

It is not common in residential, though residential is not exempted from OSHA regulations. OSHA is funded by fines, so they like to go after big businesses that have deep pockets, and don’t mess with small businesses unless there is an accident.

 

[mayanees]

I need an EEWP each time I remove the electrical panel cover to repair or install circuits NEAR energized parts (opening the main breaker, line side lugs are still energized)? Is it common to fill out an EEWP on a regular basis for a residential environment? This appears to open a floodgate of documented paperwork (shock hazard assessment, risk, arc flash, etc...) This all seems very unnecessary with residential electrical, but I will adhere if this is what is required of an employer. I imagine the PPE would be the same regardless of the service barrier, even though it probably helps with shock protection. How do you determine PPE on the secondary side of the transformer, line side of the main breaker?

Incident energy would be determined by one of two methods:
130.5(F) Arc Flash PPE.
One of the following methods shall be used for the selection of arc flash PPE:
(1) The incident energy analysis method in accordance with 130.5(G)
(2) The arc flash PPE category method in accordance with 130.7(C)(15)
Whether or not PPE is required for a specific task is guided by Table 130.5(C) Estimate of the Likelihood of Occurrence of an Arc Flash Incident for ac and dc Systems. From this table you can determine that when removing covers on an energized system in any condition there is a likelihood of occurrence of an arc flash incident, so PPE must be worn.

 

[suemarkp]

And people wonder why there is DIY work since OSHA doesnt apply to DIY. I dont pull the meter to work in my own panel. It is one of the newer ones now where the line lugs are covered with boots so it is safer than in the past.

I did have the meter pulled when I changed the main panel. That process sucked as you have to call and it was a 30 minute wait to talk to someone. You call that same number again and wait when you are ready for reconnect. So it was same day service but an hour wasted on hold. And I think it was about $300 for that. Had to get the inspector there too before reconnect but he was actually prompt and easy. They are tasked online.

The newly mandated fireman disconnect will make those houses easier to work on if it is just a disconnect and not a whole 3R panel placed outside.

 

[garbo]

I am struggling to find a solution for my dilemma, and feel as though it's a common occurrence. My situation involves residential electrical service for single phase 120/240v. I have been in the field of electrical for over 15 years, and I am now an electrical contractor (5 years running). I am more or less the only employee of my company, but I would like to hire employees and have a safety protocol in place before I even consider hiring.
My concern is the practical nature of my career and the regulations which have recently been made known to me through sifting this forum and two others regarding "de-energized parts" for 29 CFR 1910.333.
From my understanding, there is no possible scenario or exception for me or other employees to work near energized parts. Since most of the residential main breaker panels/load centers around my area (Southwest Florida) include all the branch circuit breakers, there would be no way for me to de-energize the electrical panel/load center apart from the local utilities. I also believe that I cannot use the table method or even perform an incident energy exposure calculation, risk hazard assessment, shock hazard assessment, fill out an energized electrical work permit, etc... That is only for times when it is "impracticable" (impossible) to de-energize.
Is this to say that for every installation requiring me to remove the electrical panel cover/dead front requires a disconnect/reconnect from the local utilities?

Examples might be:

Replacing a bad circuit breaker
Fixing a double tap circuit breaker
Installing a new circuit


Thanks.

~ Scott

Got good & bad news. I had to do an OSHA 10 hour class a few years ago to renew my Philly electrical license. They said if you are the owner and have no employees you do not have to follow OSHA. Me local ultility PECO often take forever to remove the barrel lock on a meter so most sparkies just work hot Best practice is to always secure power then LOTO power before opening up a panel . Years ago I replaced 100 amp main house panels hot. Just made sure that I had ends of service cable taped good. Would never attempt to do this nowadays. You must send your gloves away to be tested every 6 months and should have your torque wrenches & drivers calibration checked every year and think hard hats replaced every two years.Beciming expensive to be a sparkie. Before I retired my company purchased a nice. XXL think it's rated for 12 CAL approved zippered sweat shirt for me. Came with a UL approved label and 3 other labels. Had my name & company logo & department sewn in with kevlar. Was told they can no longer use some what flammable cotton for names & logos so just this sweat shirt cost over $125. WOW. So you need to have two sets of rubber gloves rated for 600 volts and two higher voltage gloves if you even do switching or rack out say 4,160 or 13,000 volt equipment. We had two sets of each so while one set was out a week or longer being tested would have gloves to wear. Like to have a dollar for every 100 & 200 amp service that my dad & me tied in hot without wearing gloves. Thank God got a lot safer as I aged.

 

[hillbilly1]

The saying goes “ There are old electricians, and there are bold electricians, but no old bold electricians” LOL!