Residential........emt vs romex

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big vic

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Bidding a 3900 square two story house with unfinished basement and 400 amp service

About 240 openings including 45 recessed cans

They want it priced done in romex and done in EMT

Normally in romex our price would be between 20 and 25 k

What percentage more should the price be in EMT

There are no trusses house is being built with wood "I- Beams"

House in right on Lake Michigan....owners are from Chicago,,,,,that is the reason for the EMT pricing
 
Just because they want it priced both ways, doesn't mean you need to deliver such a quote. If you don't do houses in EMT, you stand a real good chance of losing your butt if you quote it and they accept it. In Chicago, they could probably get a competitive quote. In rural America, such a request would necessarily generate a quote several times the NM cable price, I would suspect.
 
The cannot get a competative price of emt vs. romex in Chicago. Chicago Electrical Code, and most of the area, do NOT allow romex. ALL installations must be done in conduit.
 
If you are unfamilar w/running EMT through studs, you stand to lose no matter the price you quote. The inevitable adds, changes, moves and extras will also be devestating for you. If this is an area that you have little or no expertise in, I would inform the customer of such and simply refuse to price it.

I would give them the RX number, ask them to "shop around", and call me at a later date - even if your number is not accepted.
 
big vic said:
What percentage more should the price be in EMT

House in right on Lake Michigan....owners are from Chicago,,,,,that is the reason for the EMT pricing
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There is no percentage! And as others have said, if you have no experiance in it, you could be taking significant risk - unless they want an open ended T&M estimate.... If they want thier house wired for Chicago, maybe the get an Electrician from Chicago...

However if you want it.... You could offer a compromise if they are looking for a re-pull-able wiring method, by offering a combination of flex and EMT. All points would be steel box and ring, and require provisions for several 12X12X4 j-boxes here and there. (Behind cabinets and such - one in kitchen) And price your home-runs as for example: 20 or < #10's in 1 1/4" to them. Break out to 12's from there. (Or 12's to 14) That will cut the home-runs down, especially if you can get as the crow flies runs through a crawl-space. But that all means nothing if you and your guys dont regularly run pipe. Otherwise a few quick lessons from a plumber on how to drill straight and jamb a 10' stick in a wall should be all you need. And if you don't own a band-saw - charge one to the job....
 
I would take the NM price and multiply by 3. Better figure on a million couplings and a lot of cutting to make short pieces of EMT.
 
I think the price would be A LOT higher than 3x:

1000' 14/2 RX = $402

1000' 1/2" EMT = $197
100 1/2" SS conn = $38.20
100 1/2" SScoup. = $41.80
2000' #14 THHN = $159.96
Total = $436.69

The killer is the labor....
RX comes to 6 hours/1000'
EMT comes to 55 hours/1000'

This of course does not include ANY boxes or mounting....the metal box will cost more vs. the plastic boxes, AND the metal boxes will require mud rings which translates in to MORE time.


I'd say RX price vs. EMT...10x more!

EDIT...I think I added wrong...I only included 1000' THHN, should be 2000'
EDIT...I just forgot to indicate the price was for 2000'
 
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6 hours to pull 1000' of romex? I can drill and pull that much in 2 max, assuming the boxes are done. But that said, I wouldn't want to do a house in emt. My bending skills aren't what I would like.
 
JohnJ0906 said:
6 hours to pull 1000' of romex? I can drill and pull that much in 2 max, assuming the boxes are done. But that said, I wouldn't want to do a house in emt. My bending skills aren't what I would like.
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Does that 2 hours also include getting it off the truck, into the home, dragging it from room to room and maybe up/down a flight or two of stairs?
 
celtic said:
EDIT...I think I added wrong...I only included 1000' THHN, should be 2000'
EDIT...I just forgot to indicate the price was for 2000'
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I think you're looking at more than 2000' of THHN, unless that's 2000' x 3 wires. And even then you're wrong :)
 
celtic said:
Does that 2 hours also include getting it off the truck, into the home, dragging it from room to room and maybe up/down a flight or two of stairs?
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I'd like to see a picture of his work at that rate of speed. 1000' in two hours is 8' per MINUTE.
 
tallgirl said:
I think you're looking at more than 2000' of THHN, unless that's 2000' x 3 wires. And even then you're wrong :)
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Eh, not really. Use the pipe for ground. Count on 5% pipe waste, so you're installing 950' net of pipe. Hot and a neutral, considering 6-8" free conductor at each box and the 950' of pipe, 2000' is just about right. There's very little or no THHN waste.
 
A suburb in the Chicago area did a study about 15 years ago before adopting a "pipe" code. Their results showed a 15 to 25% premium for the use of EMT. Of course this was done in an area where most of the houses being built were built using pipe. With an experienced pipe crew the pipe installation does not take much longer than does the NM installation...in both cases the majority of the time is drilling the holes. There are a lot of tricks used to speed the pipe installation. The cost increase is from the cost of the pipe and wire compared to the NM and the extra labor to go back and pull the wire. If you normally do NM and try pipe I would expect that your labor would be at least 5 times that of NM.
Don
 
georgestolz said:
Tsk tsk. For shame. :)
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Nooooo! Not this argument again!

I still think 2000' is low. With 240 openings and 7" of free conductor per opening, there are 140' times 2 worth of free conductor alone. And that assumes there are only 2 conductors per opening, which means all outlets are home runs and there are no switches on any of the lights :)

I put something like 12,000' in a pair of COMMERCIAL buildings (meaning, no kitchen countertops, no 12' between recepts, nothing else magical) that were twice that size combined, and I left everything above the flood line in the pipes.
 
I think the most I (and a sizable crew) have ever pulled in a single building was close to 100,000' of #12.... (Roughly 7000' of 1/2 and 7000' of 3/4 with 75% of that with 9 conductors each. Plus 1" for fire alarm)

Not saying that to brag.... But saying from experiance it doesn't take long to pull - it's the pipe and openings that get you.

Box and Pipe 3 months.... Pull 3 days... Splice forever.....
 
big vic said:
There are no trusses house is being built with wood "I- Beams"
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Just noticed this in the OP.... Demand as a contingencey in any price that the holes / KO's in them line up - or price is NA.... (Especially with pipe!) Drilling them is a RPITA and burns bits quick!
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
If you normally do NM and try pipe I would expect that your labor would be at least 5 times that of NM.
Don
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I agree, and will add that even if you are great at installing pipe in commercial spaces that doing it in a wood framed home is still going to be slow.

Just planning your routes will take some time, never mind installing EMT 24" at a time through the studs.
 
tallgirl said:
I'd like to see a picture of his work at that rate of speed. 1000' in two hours is 8' per MINUTE.
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Neater than most I see. If you don't want neat I can go a bit faster. Of course I am slowing up a bit, but about 10 years ago I could really yank some romex.
 
celtic said:
Does that 2 hours also include getting it off the truck, into the home, dragging it from room to room and maybe up/down a flight or two of stairs?
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I will admit that this would be optimal conditions, house clean 8' ceilings, coffie hot... Your bid is probaly a more realistic. Oh yes, HO far,far away!
 
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