Residential Wiring

[James L]

Most new home builders in the Kansas City area don't even want to pay a fair price for minimum build. Some small builders will, and some custom builders will. But not many.

With the way they almost all mismanage their jobs, it's easy to find yourself working for $25 an hour. Most guys here are doing anything they can to cut corners so they don't go broke

Heck, that 3,000 sf house @Rick 0920 mentioned, I've seen a lot of guys wire it with only 3 general circuits.

 

[Rick 0920]

If you charge minimum, build minimum

Yes. But it was never a goal of mine to be known as the CHEAPEST electrician in town.

 

[JohnE]

Plug-in loads have changed over the years. Most receptacles were "lighting outlets" decades ago.

Now we have loads in living rooms, dens, bedrooms, etc., that we never imagined years ago.

Not here in my house, Larry. Aside from a few laptops, ipad, and cell phone chargers, I have 3-4 TV's, one game station for a 22 y.o., a few led decorative lamps or holiday trees, and one old-fashioned lcd alarm clock. There is virtually no load on my lighting receptacle outlets. I built the house 12 years ago. With a 12yo and 16 yo at the time. It's a 2400 square foot ranch with a 2400 square foot finished basement, home theater (yes 15 amp receptacles), home gym, etc. My use may or may not be typical. I do not have hot plates. Mini-fridges draw what, 2-3 amps?. It's just never been a problem here, but everyone's mileage may be different. I generally see very little load in the lighting outlets these days.

 

[tallgirl]

Except for specific instances, I agree with that. One 20a receptacle circuit can work where two or three 15a receptacle circuits might be needed.

I typically wire a "kids' floor" of three bedrooms w/ceiling lights/fans, closet lights, hallway, and bath light/fan with one 15a and one 20a circuit.

With all 15a circuits, you'd probably need four circuits, especially when vacuuming: one for each bedroom and the fourth for the hall and bath.

15A circuits in the modern video gaming computer world, and a vacuum cleaner, seems like a bad combination.

 

[ptonsparky]

15A circuits in the modern video gaming computer world, and a vacuum cleaner, seems like a bad combination.

They don't vacuum!!

 

[qcroanoke]

They don't vacuum!!

They don't like aĺl that noise....
....

 

[tallgirl]

They don't vacuum!!

The kids playing video games or the video games themselves?

My upstairs is all 15A, except the 1962 code cycle required receptacles, and a single 20A in the master bath.

Let me tell you how much I want to put a 20A SINGLE receptacle in the hallway. I fight myself every time I think of how to do it. As soon as I get the time I'm going to punch a hole into the guest bath and put that 20A vacuum cleaner receptacle in there. If, and only if, that does work out, there's a 20A receptacle going in the hallway.

 

[qcroanoke]

The kids playing video games or the video games themselves?

My upstairs is all 15A, except the 1962 code cycle required receptacles, and a single 20A in the master bath.

Let me tell you how much I want to put a 20A SINGLE receptacle in the hallway. I fight myself every time I think of how to do it. As soon as I get the time I'm going to punch a hole into the guest bath and put that 20A vacuum cleaner receptacle in there. If, and only if, that does work out, there's a 20A receptacle going in the hallway.

Unless the wall is blocked you should be able to fish that in.
And don't worry about code.....

 

[tallgirl]

Unless the wall is blocked you should be able to fish that in.
And don't worry about code.....

I can access it from the basement, so no worries about being code compliant. And the upstairs is still 1962 code cycle, so nothing required. I did add a receptacle to the entry way in a required location because there was a porcelain base fixture in the basement fed from the light switches and I didn't want to just pull the wires out. So, that wall now has a modern-code-required receptacle.

My hesitancy is I don't want to go crazy trying to bring the upstairs to a less ancient code cycle. I have a neighbor who did a walls-off renovation and I'm not planning to make my life miserable like he did. His wife is an absolute saint for not asking to move in with me until he's done.

Edited to add: I could just use the newly added entryway receptacle to vacuum most of the bedrooms, but 99 days out of a hundred there's a bicycle leaning up against the wall in front of it.

 

[solarken]

I'm sure this topic has been kicked around before. I believe there is no maximum number of receptacles you can put on a 15 amp circuit in a residential dwelling, correct? With that being said, I was curious how many receptacles you prefer to put on a 15 amp circuit when you're roughing a house, what's your rule of thumb?
Do you keep your lighting on separate circuits, or do you combine lighting and receptacles together?

For today and for the future, as more and more homeowners adopt solar PV and battery backup systems, I recommend the following for new home builds or major renovations:
1. Keep all lighting circuits on 15A ckts that are separate from other loads and receptacles. These will be good candidates for moving to a critical loads subpanel that will be powered in a grid outage, providing much needed lighting when the grid is down.
2. Land equipment grounds and neutrals on separate busbars in the main service panel, and do not mix, even if the main N-G bond is made there. This will make it easier to move the main bond in the future if required by a larger solar PV installation.
3. Choose a main service panel with 225A bus (for 200A service) to permit larger PV inverter to be load side connected.

Apart from the above, I have other thoughts based on adding battery backup systems to existing homes, but probably too complicated to list details about it here as every home and family has different needs. But in general, if there is a load that most would consider important to keep running in a grid outage, and if that load is not a very big load, than putting those loads onto a few common circuits that would be candidates for the critical load subpanel would be helpful.

Also, my preference is 20A for general receptacle loads instead of 15A. Reduces the chance of tripping and having voltage drop issues on longer runs.

 

[LarryFine]

My hesitancy is I don't want to go crazy trying to bring the upstairs to a less ancient code cycle.

You certainly don't have to update a floor just because you're adding a circuit/receptacle or two.

I prefer running a new grounded circuit for concentrated loads like A/V and computer systems.

Edited to add: I could just use the newly added entryway receptacle to vacuum most of the bedrooms, but 99 days out of a hundred there's a bicycle leaning up against the wall in front of it.

You can't reach it through the bike frame?

 

[qcroanoke]

I can access it from the basement, so no worries about being code compliant. And the upstairs is still 1962 code cycle, so nothing required. I did add a receptacle to the entry way in a required location because there was

Edited to add: I could just use the newly added entryway receptacle to vacuum most of the bedrooms, but 99 days out of a hundred there's a bicycle leaning up against the wall in front of it.

When I was a kid In my mom and dad's house I could tell you where that bike would end up...

 

[retirede]

The kids playing video games or the video games themselves?

My upstairs is all 15A, except the 1962 code cycle required receptacles, and a single 20A in the master bath.

Let me tell you how much I want to put a 20A SINGLE receptacle in the hallway. I fight myself every time I think of how to do it. As soon as I get the time I'm going to punch a hole into the guest bath and put that 20A vacuum cleaner receptacle in there. If, and only if, that does work out, there's a 20A receptacle going in the hallway.

Just get a robotic vac. Charging current is less than an amp.

 

[ptonsparky]

Just get a robotic vac. Charging current is less than an amp.

But it takes a long time.

 

[retirede]

But it takes a long time.

Ours is always charged before the next scheduled start, so not an issue.

 

[James L]

Yes. But it was never a goal of mine to be known as the CHEAPEST electrician in town.

Yes
I once said to a guy....

Why do I need to come out here an not make any money? I can "not make money" at home.

I can go broke on my couch, if that's the goal

 

[tallgirl]

You certainly don't have to update a floor just because you're adding a circuit/receptacle or two.

Oh, I know that. The problem is I also know once I start the walls are going to come off and I'll get carried away.

You can't reach it through the bike frame?

So. Bad things have happened regardless of where I run that cord. And since I'm around the corner in the hallway -- the one with no receptacle -- I can't see how bad things are about to get.

 

[kwired]

They don't vacuum!!

yes. if anything they use a robot vacuum that only draws minimal amount while charging.

 

[James L]

yes. if anything they use a robot vacuum that only draws minimal amount while charging.

More and more people are going to cordless vacuums and other cordless devices.

It won't be long and somebody will invent a cordless space heater

 

[kwired]

More and more people are going to cordless vacuums and other cordless devices.

It won't be long and somebody will invent a cordless space heater

I've had one for years, runs on propane. Not recommended to use in the house though.

I have seen from DeWalt a propane heater that uses their power tool batteries to run a blower and ignition controls though.