restrictive covenant

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Rewire said:
We are spending alot of time energy and yes money to develope our business
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All successful businesses do. In many states, non-competes can only be applied to "professionals" and require compensation, and that's if you can have them at all. Very few people in the electrical contracting trade outside of credentialed engineers and maybe senior sales staff would qualify. You can protect proprietary information ("don't take that away and use it") and possible prevent someone from applying your proprietary process to something, but you can't stop them from working. You also can't tell someone not to use the skills they've learned in your employ unless they too are proprietary*.

*I think you can have a separate agreement where someone agrees to remain in your employ for a set period after certain employer-provided training, but even that's a bit sketchy.

You really need an employment lawyer to draft something like this, or at least buy yourself a pre-written one.
 
Fulthrotl said:
that was participation.....

jesus, dude, you are hiring a sparky, not someone to tweak
googles search algorithm.

when all this state of the art business building BS is over
and all the hyper motivated weekend seminars are dust,
here is most of what you'll need to know:

money follows personal relationships

and if you have a muppet that a repeat customer really likes,
and that muppet leaves you, either for someone else's service
truck, or his own service truck, that customer will follow him.

the working relationship that exists is between him and the
customer, not you. and your noncompete document isn't
gonna change that a damn bit.

you'd do better to see if you could maintain good personal
relationships with the people who earn your living for you,
your employees, than to figure out how to write a piece of
paper that will allow you to screw them if your relationship
with them goes south.

and you are telling me that i can't work within 25 miles of
you after we part company if i sign your piece of paper?

sure wilbur.... gimme fifteen minutes to make sure all
of my personal tools are out of the work van....
here's the gas credit card and the company cellphone...

the phones all ready for the next proud "technician"
just give me a minute to erase the stored phone numbers....

there ya are... good to go..... you can mail the last check....
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look at it from the employer side and not the employee side and it will take on a whole new light. If you want to work on our team this is the rule its no different than requiring a drug test it just what it takes to work here. It is not about screwing the employee but about keeping the employee from screwing my business. As far as the "muppet" taking a customer it is not an issue as long as it is outside the 25 mile radius.
 
zbang said:
All successful businesses do. In many states, non-competes can only be applied to "professionals" and require compensation, and that's if you can have them at all. Very few people in the electrical contracting trade outside of credentialed engineers and maybe senior sales staff would qualify. You can protect proprietary information ("don't take that away and use it") and possible prevent someone from applying your proprietary process to something, but you can't stop them from working. You also can't tell someone not to use the skills they've learned in your employ unless they too are proprietary*.

*I think you can have a separate agreement where someone agrees to remain in your employ for a set period after certain employer-provided training, but even that's a bit sketchy.

You really need an employment lawyer to draft something like this, or at least buy yourself a pre-written one.
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This is a pre written beginning that was sent by our legal service and in our state it can be enforced. It does not prevent someone from working as long as it is outside the 25 mile territory. We have alot of things beyond "skills" that we are trying to protect. It is more about protecting our systems and procedures. Home protection plans are sold in the residential service business we are not trying to prevent a competitor from sellinf a plan we are trying to prevent a competitor from learning how we market and sell OUR plan.
 
Rewire said:
what we do is more than just working as an electrician. All of our systems and proceedures are something I dont want walking out the door and down the street to a competitor. We are spending alot of time energy and yes money to develope our business .We are not a cookie cutter construction business that can be easily duplicated .
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Make up your mind, you started out with non-compete wording and now you are talking about non-disclosure.
 
Rewire said:
look at it from the employer side and not the employee side and it will take on a whole new light. If you want to work on our team this is the rule its no different than requiring a drug test it just what it takes to work here.
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It is much different from a drug test requirement.

If you fail a drug test you don't get the job, but you are free to work somewhere else.




It is not about screwing the employee but about keeping the employee from screwing my business.
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It may well be aimed at protecting your business but make no mistake it is also screwing the employee.
 
iwire said:
Make up your mind, you started out with non-compete wording and now you are talking about non-disclosure.
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The non compete is to prevent someone from opening up shop next door to us with all the knowledge of our business just makes practical business sense to do what you can to stop it.
 
iwire said:
So you are not interested in hiring the best, only the robots. Makes great business sense.
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not sure how you reached that conclusion but it is not the case actually even the way we go about hiring is something we would like to protect.We look for the best and we compensate well but no matter what you will always have the possibility of someone wanting to make the jump to owner and we do not discurage it we just want to protect our territory and clients
 
Rewire said:
what we do is more than just working as an electrician. All of our systems and proceedures are something I dont want walking out the door and down the street to a competitor. We are spending alot of time energy and yes money to develope our business .We are not a cookie cutter construction business that can be easily duplicated .
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Sounds to me like this could apply to many businesses that would never ask their new hires to sign such a document. Also sounds like you're spending a lot of time and energy on paranoia.
 
iwire said:
It is much different from a drug test requirement.

If you fail a drug test you don't get the job, but you are free to work somewhere else.
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and if you dont want to sign our non compete you are also free to work somewhere else


It may well be aimed at protecting your business but make no mistake it is also screwing the employee.
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maybe as an employee you can tell me how this screws the employee? Because as an owner I can definately tell you how an employee can screw the company without a non compete.
 
LEO2854 said:
Same here...:lol:
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How exactly would you defend against it? Remember in my state they are enforcable. Or are you just parroting what someone elser posted? You willingly sign a document that ristricts you from working within 25 miles of our business for a year. Now just why should you not be held to what you agreed to?
 
Rewire said:
This is a pre written beginning that was sent by our legal service and in our state it can be enforced. It does not prevent someone from working as long as it is outside the 25 mile territory. We have alot of things beyond "skills" that we are trying to protect. It is more about protecting our systems and procedures. Home protection plans are sold in the residential service business we are not trying to prevent a competitor from sellinf a plan we are trying to prevent a competitor from learning how we market and sell OUR plan.
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Rewire,

Look at this more realistically.

Even if you get employees to sign such an agreement, in 365 days and within 25 miles of your place of business they could be in direct competition with your business. Unless you are trying to bring something to the market that is time sensitive or a product that you are trying to patent/trademark, etc.., the agreement is useless. As far as " prevent a competitor (ex employee) from learning how we market and sell OUR plan", the cat is out of the bag the minute you hire someone and show them how to sell the plan. All this talk of non-compete and non-disclosure in the electrical contracting world is for nothing. Good management + skilled tradesman + fair price = signed contracts and future work.
 
Rewire said:
How exactly would you defend against it? Remember in my state they are enforcable. Or are you just parroting what someone elser posted? You willingly sign a document that ristricts you from working within 25 miles of our business for a year. Now just why should you not be held to what you agreed to?
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First I would not work for any company that would make it so I could not work in my chosen profession for any amount of time after being fired and if I was working for you and you tried to have sign that I would refuse.,what are you going to do then?,Fire me?. Go right ahead and I'll see you in court.

If you are so worried about former employees taking your customers then that makes it clear to me that your not doing the best job you can to keep your customers happy and will lose them to your compition anyways.
 
I had my former employee's sign an agreement.

The no compete was on the customer list, and on some of my software extras that I developed and used.

The way I worded it was; that with any future job, no assoiciation could be made to contact any existing customer for a period one year time.
 
So what your saying Rewire is if you get slow and lay me off I can't go up the road to feed myself. Is this accurate? You really think your going get the best guys? I doubt you get the best of the rest. Unless your paying some ridiculous amount of flow. Most great electricians have a goal in mind professionally. And if that goal can't be achieved at your company who are you to prevent them from pursuing it elsewhere?
 
iwire said:
OK, what are you offering the employee to sign such an agreement?....
.
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No doubt! It had better be more than a shiny van, spiffy shirt, and a lot of headaches from a bean counter boss.
How good is the pay is? Am I guaranteed a forty hour pay check every week? Who do I get to talk to if you decide to fire me? Who pays for that?

Fulthrotl said:
you'd do better to see if you could maintain good personal
relationships with the people who earn your living for you,
your employees, than to figure out how to write a piece of
paper that will allow you to screw them if your relationship
with them goes south.....
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Agreed 100% and then some.
 
billdozier 78 said:
So what your saying Rewire is if you get slow and lay me off I can't go up the road to feed myself. Is this accurate? You really think your going get the best guys? I doubt you get the best of the rest. Unless your paying some ridiculous amount of flow. Most great electricians have a goal in mind professionally. And if that goal can't be achieved at your company who are you to prevent them from pursuing it elsewhere?
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:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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