RG-6,RG-6 quad shield,RG-59 whats the difference?

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BMacky said:
This has been a great thread to read, FYI. Thanks to all who put the info out there.

I do have a question for any or all:

Using RG-6 and compression-style fittings, I too had trouble getting them to seat easily- until last week. I asked a ComCast guy why I was having so much trouble with the fittings slipping easily over the cable and he asked if I was peeling the outer braided shield back over the cable before slipping the fitting on. I wasn't, as I expected my stripper was a one-shot "strip and slip" device. Anyhow, I started by adjusting my Ideal Coax stripper so the outer braid was not cut at the same spot as the jacket, and then bending the braid back down over the outer insulation prior to slipping on the termination. That's been working great, but my question (finally) is: Is that the proper method? Seems to me the termination should sleeve into the cable between dielectric and braided shield.

Any takers?
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That is right... You have to fold the braid back. And for quad shield, you'll have to strip the cable, fold the first braid back, slice the first layer of foil off with a razor to expose the second braid, then fold the second braid back. You say the connector should sleeve into the cable between the dielectric and the braid... that is exactly what will happen unless I'm missing something.

Look at the last page of http://www.tnb.com/contractor/docs/snapnseal.pdf
 
BMacky said:
Seems to me the termination should sleeve into the cable between dielectric and braided shield.
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For cables with more than one layer of foil, all but the innermost layer can be cut off flush.

If the foil isn't glued to the dielectric, you fold the whole affair back and then push the connector barrel in between the dielectric and the foil.

Fig05.jpg


If the foil is bonded you leave it in place, and just fold back the braid. The connector barrel goes between the foil and the braid. The only thing to watch out for is that you don't have a tiny sliver of foil shorting to the center conductor.
 
quogueelectric said:
It cannot be split the way people used to split cable lines
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There is no reason that RG-6 cannot be split. It's just a coaxial cable like any other. There will be about a 3-4 dB signal loss for splitting it.

I believe this myth comes from the direct subscriber satellite TV market. The small dish satellite systems used more bandwidth than their cable predecessors so the installs went from RG-59 to RG-6 to make this work. At the same time, satellite signals cannot be split because of the following.

The satellite signals are downlinked on two different channels at the same frequencies. This is done with polarization diversity. One channel is RHCP and the other is LHCP. The DTV receiver selects the polarization by placing one-of-two distinct DC voltages on the coaxial cable. This voltage is used by the LNA to power the amplifier, but it also senses the voltage level and selects the correct polarization. If you try to split the signal to multiple receivers, the selection process gets confused and you only get the even or odd channels, but not both. This description applies to the old single satellite systems. The newer multiple satellite systems are similar, but more complex.

You can still split a DTV signal, but you must use a multi-switch.

Mark
 
like the digicon tool for F connectors, it has a long stroke and i havent come across a connector it wouldnt install. its also good for holding the connector while you shove a stubborn cable into it.

Unfortunately that's incorrect. The tool you use should have a stroke that ends when the connector is fully seated. The tool will be fully closed and you won't be able to squeeze it any farther. If you use a "long" connector in a tool that is designed for shorter ones there is no way to tell if it is fully seated or has been damaged because you have squeezed too hard. You can't do this by feel! The tool should be matched to the connector!

Also, it looks like you have problems preping the cable properly or are using the wrong connector if you have "stubborn" cables.

-Hal
 
Rg6 quad shield is the standard by by me for bidirectional high speed network cable being installed. It cannot be split the way people used to split cable lines its bandwidth is high and the testing equipment for that is expensive as far as signal strength. Remember to make all of your runs homeruns back to the dmark point and you cant go wrong. People want to cheap out and split everything and you will get the callbacks.

I think what he is saying is that with today's cable systems you have to consider the reverse channels that were not present in the analog days. This is what I have been alluding to also. You can't just cascade splitters even with all home runs to supply a house full of jacks. Even if you use a house amplifier to make up for the loss, they have no gain in the reverse direction and the reverse channel loss back to the node can be unacceptable. When that happens the cable boxes shut down.

A big consideration also is ingress and reflections from unused tap ports or jacks. You can't have jacks with nothing connected to them. If the reverse channel ingress is high enough it can actually wipe out the whole node. Ingress is one of the reasons that connector integrity is so important and improper connectors and DIY work account for much of the problems.

-Hal
 
there are many cable tv amps on the market that have active return path, so the return path is amplified as well.

as far as the stubborn cable thing, not an issue of prepping the cable, sometimes you will run into some quad thats been sitting outside for 12 years and it just doesnt want a connector to go into it.......
 
there are many cable tv amps on the market that have active return path, so the return path is amplified as well.

Some are suitable for home run amps, but then we get back to "does anybody really have any business playing with this stuff unless you have the experience and knowledge to know what you are doing" story.

Unfortunately just about anything is available to anybody with a credit card but that doesn't mean they should be using it. There is a great potential for disruption of service to other addresses and harm considering that cable now handles much more than TV. The cable company is responsible for the functioning of wiring and equipment within a home or buildng even if it was not installed by them. They will refuse service if the owner does not allow them to make any changes they see fit, and that usually means that they will redo everything you did the way they want with their own materials.

In the end you do your customer a disservice by doing any more than pulling cable.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
there are many cable tv amps on the market that have active return path, so the return path is amplified as well.

Some are suitable for home run amps, but then we get back to "does anybody really have any business playing with this stuff unless you have the experience and knowledge to know what you are doing" story.

Unfortunately just about anything is available to anybody with a credit card but that doesn't mean they should be using it. There is a great potential for disruption of service to other addresses and harm considering that cable now handles much more than TV. The cable company is responsible for the functioning of wiring and equipment within a home or buildng even if it was not installed by them. They will refuse service if the owner does not allow them to make any changes they see fit, and that usually means that they will redo everything you did the way they want with their own materials.

In the end you do your customer a disservice by doing any more than pulling cable.

-Hal
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Each individual has thier own level of experience and confidence and knowledge about installing phone/catv lines.
As far as I go I sell a point to point completed product. I have to have some responsibility to provide a correct installation.
This goes for networking cables and phone lines as well. I now own a networking analyzer which will wiremap all of my lines and perform a ping test back to the router.
I have customers all the time who try to blame the wii games problems and thier bad firewall installs on me the electrician.
I walk them to the jack run a network analyze function and when I can show them that I am reading a passed wire at network speed and I am reading the mac address of thier router from the jack My job is done.
My cables /connections are good and up and running at network speed. This entire process takes about 5 minutes.
I learned the catv installs by picking the brains of the installers when I am on the job at the same time as them.
They are the ones who tell me that the surfboard has to be put on the first split as this is more signal dependant than the converter boxes.
The better job to do is all homeruns which is what I sell and a small ups that keeps the modem alive for phone service in the event of a power outage. This is not space shuttle technology it is a couple of cable and phone lines where you can make an extra grand on for about 300$ in material.
 
Well, I'm not going to beat a dead horse again, it's clear some people will never understand the problem. All I can say is that from the cable company's standpoint there is no such thing as acceptable work done by someone else.

If you insist on completing an installation by providing jacks, connectors and splitters and you get paid by the customer for it, more power to you. But what do you think the customer is going to say when the cable guy replaces it all? If you take on the responsibility you say you do, will you give them their money back when they realize the cable company would have done it for nothing?

Now I'm not talking something like a two or four jack installation, that's no big deal. It's common to have much larger installations in large houses and I've seen it all wind up on the floor.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
Well, I'm not going to beat a dead horse again, it's clear some people will never understand the problem. All I can say is that from the cable company's standpoint there is no such thing as acceptable work done by someone else.

If you insist on completing an installation by providing jacks, connectors and splitters and you get paid by the customer for it, more power to you. But what do you think the customer is going to say when the cable guy replaces it all? If you take on the responsibility you say you do, will you give them their money back when they realize the cable company would have done it for nothing?

Now I'm not talking something like a two or four jack installation, that's no big deal. It's common to have much larger installations in large houses and I've seen it all wind up on the floor.

-Hal
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I wouldn't let a minimum wage kid that just graduated high school that found a cool job for the catv company because he gets free cable and internet in my house... ;) :grin: Sorry Hal, but times are changing, catv companies hire kids and politically correct call them techs....
 
Tech is a nice term for someone that knows how to run a drill through the drywall to outside and stick a cable though the hole and put a connector on.

Who cares what it looks like? Why would you take all that time to make it look right when you are a piece worker? why bond the cable, not your set.

If it works it must be right.
 
jimport said:
Tech is a nice term for someone that knows how to run a drill through the drywall to outside and stick a cable though the hole and put a connector on.
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if they drill a hole from inside to outside theyre called a tech

if they drill a hole from inside to outside and through your gas meter theyre called comcast
 
There is a world of difference between those cable monkeys, even as poor as they may be, and someone buying material and tools off the internet or a supply house and thinking "how hard can it be to make some money with this".

Anybody who works for a cable company, either directly or as a subcontractor (who do piecework) have their materials supplied to them which means there is no question about what is supposed to be used. Even entry level has some training on the job they will be doing which covers the proper use and installation of materials. They are supplied with test equipment and trained on how to use it as well as the operation and diagnosis of problems with equipment like cable boxes and cable modems. Whether or not they slept through it is another matter, but all cable companies have some form of QA and those that screw up don't last long.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
There is a world of difference between those cable monkeys, even as poor as they may be, and someone buying material and tools off the internet or a supply house and thinking "how hard can it be to make some money with this".

Anybody who works for a cable company, either directly or as a subcontractor (who do piecework) have their materials supplied to them which means there is no question about what is supposed to be used. Even entry level has some training on the job they will be doing which covers the proper use and installation of materials. They are supplied with test equipment and trained on how to use it as well as the operation and diagnosis of problems with equipment like cable boxes and cable modems. Whether or not they slept through it is another matter, but all cable companies have some form of QA and those that screw up don't last long.

-Hal
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I agree with you on this. Unless you KNOW what you are doing, you shouldnt be installing coax / cat5. I bought a new tract home a few years ago. The EC used crappy general cable coax in the prewire, it was full of kinks and was smashed where they attached it with romex staples. I caught all this on the framing walkthrough, notified the builder, and they refused to do anything citing the fact that 'It passed inspection'. Needless to say after I moved in, none of the 7 or 8 cable outlets were any good. Some had snow on higher analog channels, some a digital box wouldnt work due to return path issues, etc. I ended up having to fish new coax to each place I had a TV. couldnt use an inch of the wire in the house.
 
On the subject of F connectors... Did Thomas & Betts switch to a new metal or some sort of coating on the SNS connectors?
 
wireguru said:
I caught all this on the framing walkthrough, notified the builder, and they refused to do anything citing the fact that 'It passed inspection'.
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I would have brought the house down, figuratively, and had this corrected immediately.

I ended up having to fish new coax to each place I had a TV. couldnt use an inch of the wire in the house.
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This would have been billed to whomever said 'It passed inspection' along with a 'stupid' penalty.
 
LarryFine said:
I would have brought the house down, figuratively, and had this corrected immediately.

This would have been billed to whomever said 'It passed inspection' along with a 'stupid' penalty.
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i tried. i even considered bringing an atty into it. problem was the builder was eager to have me cancel the purchase because at this point they were selling the same house for almost 100k more than i had it in contract for. I didnt want to risk 100k over some cable lines so i just let it be. took a ton of photos of the framing which helped me in my fishing later. i was able to get VERY creative and was even able to fish an empty smurf tube between upstairs and downstairs media areas without cutting any extra holes in walls.

just annoying the builder wouldnt fix such an easy to repair problem. even offered to have the company i was with at the time do it. builder wouldnt allow due to 'liability reasons' even though company had 6 million in liability coverage....go figure.
 
Well to answer my own earlier question, it appears that the Snap-N-Seal connectors are now using a different metal finish. "Nickel tin" as opposed to the older "cadmium plated with iridescent chromate coating"

What's the difference?
 
kornbln said:
Well to answer my own earlier question, it appears that the Snap-N-Seal connectors are now using a different metal finish. "Nickel tin" as opposed to the older "cadmium plated with iridescent chromate coating"

What's the difference?
Click to expand...

may have something to do with ROHS

http://www.rafhdwe.com/plating2.htm
 
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