RMC Cut & Threads

[Alwayslearningelec]

Takes some experience to get the feel of when one more turn will work and when it likely won't.

What exactly do you mean? THanks

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

If the electricians are not experienced in this type of install, plan on a lot of expensive 3 piece couplings, or if in a classified area, much more expensive explosionproof unions. Also, plan on about doubling the labor units from your labor unit book if they don't have the experience.

And how can one tell they are not experienced? Because to be honest the owners are saying the guys are experiecned with this work and I don;t think that's true. THey have never even relly worked in the field. Even the super is not that experienced with this work. So if there is no one there to assess whether they are taking much longer due to lack of experience then what? Is there anything I's be able to ask/check on to see if they are lacking the experience with this size/type pipe and the amount of runs etc.? Sure if one of you guys was watching the install and/or asking questions you'd know right away.

 

[LarryFine]

What exactly do you mean? THanks

Unlike when working with EMT, you don't get to aim your elbows and then tighten the joints. Sometimes, you have to leave a coupling slightly loose because it won't turn another 360 degrees.

Next time you're in the orange or blue store, go to the plumbing department and screw together a couple of elbows and maybe a nipple or two.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

So if someone doesn't mind could they provide thier GENERAL thoughts on the labor I estimated and whther you think t could be done in this amount of time. It would relly help.

Scenario #1
5 runs of 4" RMC Aluminum at 100' each = 500' total. Going from distribution board to pull box.

Each runs has three 90's.

Being mounted a single tier trapeze rack every 7'. Trapeze rode is mounted to beam clamps. Rod drops are about 6'

The conduit is 30' off finished floor. Working off lifts in clear area.

Have a total of about 205 hours for this. Essentially 2 electricians about 3 weeks. That includes getting material to area, non productive time, layout etc.

Secenario #2

14 runs of 4" RMC Aluminum at 255' each = 3,570' total. Going from distribution board to Distribution Board

Each runs has five 90's and 3 small offsets and 2 C conduit bodies.

Being mounted a single tier trapeze rack every 7'. Trapeze rode is mounted to beam clamps. Rod drops are about 6'

The conduit is 30' off finished floor. Working off lifts in clear area.

Have a total of about 1600 hours for this. Essentially 2 electricians just over 5 weeks. That includes getting material to area, non productive time, layout etc.

Thank you for any feedback.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Senario#2 is gonna need pull boxes. You're at least 100 degrees of bend over 360 degrees

Yes I know and I have them. I'm inquiring w/o the pullboxes. On a side note don't conduit bodies reset the 360 degree rule?
Don;t want to get detured from my question/inquiry. Hope someone can give some feedback. Thanks

 

[LarryFine]

On a side note don't conduit bodies reset the 360 degree rule?

Yes; they are pull-points. That's the most common use of C-bodies.

 

[qcroanoke]

Yes I know and I have them. I'm inquiring w/o the pullboxes. On a side note don't conduit bodies reset the 360 degree rule?
Don;t want to get detured from my question/inquiry. Hope someone can give some feedback. Thanks

Yeah. I seen that. That's why I deleted my post but apparently not quick enough.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

So if someone doesn't mind could they provide thier GENERAL thoughts on the labor I estimated and whther you think t could be done in this amount of time. It would relly help.

Scenario #1
5 runs of 4" RMC Aluminum at 100' each = 500' total. Going from distribution board to pull box.

Each runs has three 90's.

Being mounted a single tier trapeze rack every 7'. Trapeze rode is mounted to beam clamps. Rod drops are about 6'

The conduit is 30' off finished floor. Working off lifts in clear area.

Have a total of about 205 hours for this. Essentially 2 electricians about 3 weeks. That includes getting material to area, non productive time, layout etc.

Secenario #2

14 runs of 4" RMC Aluminum at 255' each = 3,570' total. Going from distribution board to Distribution Board

Each runs has five 90's and 3 small offsets and 2 C conduit bodies.

Being mounted a single tier trapeze rack every 7'. Trapeze rode is mounted to beam clamps. Rod drops are about 6'


The conduit is 30' off finished floor. Working off lifts in clear area.

Have a total of about 1600 hours for this. Essentially 2 electricians just over 5 weeks. That includes getting material to area, non productive time, layout etc.

Thank you for any feedback.

What type of conductors will be in the conduit. With conductors larger than 6 AWG, a C conduit body is rarely suitable for use as a pull point.
Without really looking at the conditions, I would but the labor at 55 to 65 manhours per 100' for both installations, but could be lower or higher based on the actual job site.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

What type of conductors will be in the conduit. With conductors larger than 6 AWG, a C conduit body is rarely suitable for use as a pull point.
Without really looking at the conditions, I would but the labor at 55 to 65 manhours per 100' for both installations, but could be lower or higher based on the actual job site.

Yikes...we are at 48-50 per C. Oh no.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

And how can one tell they are not experienced? Because to be honest the owners are saying the guys are experiecned with this work and I don;t think that's true. THey have never even relly worked in the field. Even the super is not that experienced with this work. So if there is no one there to assess whether they are taking much longer due to lack of experience then what? Is there anything I's be able to ask/check on to see if they are lacking the experience with this size/type pipe and the amount of runs etc.? Sure if one of you guys was watching the install and/or asking questions you'd know right away.

You told us that they were not experienced in this type of work in post #14. The labor goes way up when you are doing on the job learning...the very reason our apprentices start out at a wage that is 35% of the JW wage.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

You told us that they were not experienced in this type of work in post #14. The labor goes way up when you are doing on the job learning...the very reason our apprentices start out at a wage that is 35% of the JW wage.

Yes well the owners said they have experienced guys but I don't really beleive them. THe one owner was hedging taking the job. THey've never done a job this big or close. It's a $7M empty conduit job ( wire pulled by others)..mostly all RMC Al, PVC Coated RGS and some EMT. All 4".

Well All in it's about 45,000' of conduit. If job tanks could put them out of business. So I'm very worried about the labor units. We did review and they agreed so it's not just me.

Also that's why I asked how I could tell( either by asking questions of the foreman/super or anything else) because I really don;t think they will said it's a field problem if the production is poor. We are tracking the job using cost codes( at my request) so I guess if that will give an indication.

But again, how would I know if the production units are due to inexperience and would have been better with an experienced crew?

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

You told us that they were not experienced in this type of work in post #14. The labor goes way up when you are doing on the job learning...the very reason our apprentices start out at a wage that is 35% of the JW wage.

Yes but you can also have JM that doesn't have much experience with large conduit install.

 

[rambojoe]

$7m? Empty?!
Ill do it. W/o c. bodies or 3 piece unions.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

$7m? Empty?!
Ill do it.

Yea I'm sure. I know very nice job. Just hoping the labor units we carried are enough which seems they might not be. Also not sure we have right foreman and JM ...well at least ones that have done much of this work or at least ot this magnitude. Well I know not anywhere near this magnitude.

 

[rambojoe]

4 people and some hoffmans and al. pipe... Id say you got a good buffer.... Of course more than 4... I always look at everybodys paycheck in the company when doing anything. Even the bosses kids lawyer bill... Jk.
Seriously, the kid's rehab bill.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Yes; they are pull-points. That's the most common use of C-bodies.

I would not even think of using a C conduit body for a pull point on a 4" conduit run, even if you buy one that meets the 8x trade size rule for the opening in a straight line pull point.
Note, if this is all small control conductors, I might change my mind, but no way for larger conductors.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Yes but you can also have JM that doesn't have much experience with large conduit install.

You can, but that is not real likely in my area as this area is mostly conduit and wire and not much cable...strong Chicago influence where you have to use EMT even in dwelling units. NM is not permitted except as temporary construction power in the Chicago code. A lot of the northern Illinois electrical codes are very restrictive as to the use of cable wiring methods.

What kind of facility is this work in? For a lot of my industrial jobs I add 12.5% or more to cover the time getting permits and various safety rules. One example of a safety rule that would impact your job is the one I have seen a number of times is that you can't move the lift unless it is all the way down...that add a significant amount of time.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

You can, but that is not real likely in my area as this area is mostly conduit and wire and not much cable...strong Chicago influence where you have to use EMT even in dwelling units. NM is not permitted except as temporary construction power in the Chicago code. A lot of the northern Illinois electrical codes are very restrictive as to the use of cable wiring methods.

What kind of facility is this work in? For a lot of my industrial jobs I add 12.5% or more to cover the time getting permits and various safety rules. One example of a safety rule that would impact your job is the one I have seen a number of times is that you can't move the lift unless it is all the way down...that add a significant amount of time.

New construction airport terminal..jfk

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

You can, but that is not real likely in my area as this area is mostly conduit and wire and not much cable...strong Chicago influence where you have to use EMT even in dwelling units. NM is not permitted except as temporary construction power in the Chicago code. A lot of the northern Illinois electrical codes are very restrictive as to the use of cable wiring methods.

What kind of facility is this work in? For a lot of my industrial jobs I add 12.5% or more to cover the time getting permits and various safety rules. One example of a safety rule that would impact your job is the one I have seen a number of times is that you can't move the lift unless it is all the way down...that add a significant amount of time.

Wow. Heard of that and hope the men find a way around that.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Is an Erickson the same as a 2 or 3 peice coupling?