romex in residential homes

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toddpatrick

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I have recently received a notice from one of my inspectors about art. 334.30. He is stating that the romex in the attic, that is laying on top of the trusses, must be secured by a staple, tiewrap, etc.. every 41/2 feet. I understand that this is what the code says, but obviously the romex is supported every 24" by the trusses, and if it is stapled and pulled tight at the square off points, why must it be secured to the top of the trusses every 41/2 feet? The wire may move 6" either way, if it is pulled on. Do I have an argument here?
 
toddpatrick said:
I have recently received a notice from one of my inspectors about art. 334.30. He is stating that the romex in the attic, that is laying on top of the trusses, must be secured by a staple, tiewrap, etc.. every 41/2 feet. I understand that this is what the code says, but obviously the romex is supported every 24" by the trusses, and if it is stapled and pulled tight at the square off points, why must it be secured to the top of the trusses every 41/2 feet? The wire may move 6" either way, if it is pulled on. Do I have an argument here?
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The key word is Secured. No, I don't think you have an argument. You have a good point though!
 
toddpatrick said:
I have recently received a notice from one of my inspectors about art. 334.30. He is stating that the romex in the attic, that is laying on top of the trusses, must be secured by a staple, tiewrap, etc.. every 41/2 feet. I understand that this is what the code says, but obviously the romex is supported every 24" by the trusses, and if it is stapled and pulled tight at the square off points, why must it be secured to the top of the trusses every 41/2 feet? The wire may move 6" either way, if it is pulled on. Do I have an argument here?
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It's not "secured" and "securing" and "supporting" are two entirely different things.

There was a brief discussion in "Interesting Things ..." about whether it is safer (for the installer and anyone else in the attic) to staple everything down securely, or allow it to be loose. But the code is ... every 4 1/2 feet. In an attic framed 24" OC, that's every other truss if perpendicular and every truss for non-perpendicular angles much beyond a few degrees. Which is another good reason to run all attic cables parallel and perpendicular in attics :D
 
I have never seen an inspector get up on a ladder and check NM-B running horizontally on top of roof trusses. Vertical runs are a no brainer in fact I over staple in most cases but horizontal, I definately keep it tight but not by stapling every 4 1/2 feet. I think it's more of a common sense issue and one of those code articles that have a little bit of "wiggle" room.
 
As an Inspector I prefer to see less stapling in the the attic due to someone walking out beyond the access stepping on the NMB and ripping the NMB thru the staple. Yes, the NMB must be protected around the 6' and 7' perimeters of attic access 320.23
 
You may think this is overkill, but I nail those red cable stackers on top of every other truss, so when I am done with my pull I just clip them into the stacker. It is a lot faster than stapling each run back throught he attic, and some might think a little bit easier on the fingers too. They are only good for 14 & 12 wire so that is a draw back. Back in the day they used to allow you to wrap a piece of romex around the runs and bundle them up. but no more. Of course I never did anything like that but I heard about it through the grapevine.
 
dcspector said:
As an Inspector I prefer to see less stapling in the the attic due to someone walking out beyond the access stepping on the NMB and ripping the NMB thru the staple. Yes, the NMB must be protected around the 6' and 7' perimeters of attic access 320.23
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Also stepping through blown in insulation searching for a truss to support your weight has caused many a pressure short from hard soled work boots.
Across trusses I have never stapled and have never been called out on it.Although the wording says to do it.I feel it is better not to.

Ducking from the barage of stones heading my way :)
 
When I was in the field working the inspectors didnt make us staple running on top of truss so I dont require it now as an inspector. Saying that thought we do push the requirement for SER cable. "Contradiction yes I understand."
 
rasmithircgov said:
When I was in the field working the inspectors didnt make us staple running on top of truss so I dont require it now as an inspector. Saying that thought we do push the requirement for SER cable. "Contradiction yes I understand."
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Then your allowing a violation of 334.30, Two wrongs don't make a right...
 
toddpatrick said:
Do I have an argument here?
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Nope.

Some inspectors may be a bit lienient with the securing - others not.
Either way, w/o having appraoched the minimum required by code, you have no argument.
 
Yes but theres only so many times in a day or 6 years you can hear, " you guys dont use common sence when you inspect" Well theres all the common sense your getting out of me. The rest is by the book. :)
 
rasmithircgov said:
Yes but theres only so many times in a day or 6 years you can hear, " you guys dont use common sence when you inspect" Well theres all the common sense your getting out of me. The rest is by the book. :)
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Fair enough...
 
memyselfandI said:
You may think this is overkill, but I nail those red cable stackers on top of every other truss, so when I am done with my pull I just clip them into the stacker. It is a lot faster than stapling each run back throught he attic, and some might think a little bit easier on the fingers too. They are only good for 14 & 12 wire so that is a draw back. Back in the day they used to allow you to wrap a piece of romex around the runs and bundle them up. but no more. Of course I never did anything like that but I heard about it through the grapevine.
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Cable stackers are like sliced bread. Great! We without exception staple or strap NM going across the ceiling joist ALWAYS. I have been checked by the AHJ on it, just because " it doesn't make sense" is no reason not to fallow the code. it is easy to do, and takes little time. And personally I like the NM jacket as a strap for SER, loop it around once and staple it in works great. Enlighten me with a code referance if it is not acceptible. BTW I don't use it with the conductors still in it as a strap just the jacket.:)
 
rasmithircgov said:
The rest is by the book. :)
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The reminds me a guy I used to work for....

The crew and I would take special pleasure in driving this man insane with all things electrical. He was our foreman and a good electrician - but very, very anal.

One day as the crew debated some trival point on a job, his head just about exploded as he held the code book over his head (no doubt so we all could see it since he was under 5' tall ) and yelled:


"IT'S IN HERE...."
ch-moses-a1.jpg%5D
ch-moses-a1.jpg



The mission to have his head explode was a success.
​
(This is the mental image I have of that day LMAO :D)
​
 
Ok maybe I over stated. Im not anal. Theres smarter people then me who write that book. Ill listen to someone talk code. Ill hear there side with code Art's and backing, but i will not listen to " Ive been doing it this way for ................. years."
 
rasmithircgov said:
Ok maybe I over stated. Im not anal. Theres smarter people then me who write that book. Ill listen to someone talk code. Ill hear there side with code Art's and backing, but i will not listen to " Ive been doing it this way for ................. years."
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I never worked for you!

...and I fear I may have become as anal as my former foreman (this was close to 20 years ago) ;)
 
acrwc10 said:
Cable stackers are like sliced bread. Great! We without exception staple or strap NM going across the ceiling joist ALWAYS. I have been checked by the AHJ on it, just because " it doesn't make sense" is no reason not to fallow the code. it is easy to do, and takes little time. And personally I like the NM jacket as a strap for SER, loop it around once and staple it in works great. Enlighten me with a code referance if it is not acceptible. BTW I don't use it with the conductors still in it as a strap just the jacket.:)
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I dont have a code book infront of me, so forgive please. as I remeber it the SE Art refers you to 336 nm cable supports. staples, cable ties straps etc etc. doesnt 2005 say anything about listed. Not sure. please though check me on that I beleive its Art. 336 under supporting
 
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