romex in residential homes

[allenwayne]

I don`t staple NM across trusses and this has been decades of installs like this and never been called on it.In fact I have conversations with inspectors about this very subject and we agree to leave it loose IE: not stapled is a better install due to the fact that if stapled the NM is more likely to be damaged if someone was to step on it.Now SER I staple only for the fact that it doesn`t want to stay on top of a truss as NM does therefore there might be several feet without support.

 

[iwire]

not stapled is a better install due to the fact that if stapled the NM is more likely to be damaged if someone was to step on it.

Come on, you don't staple it only because no one is forcing you to and it is faster.

 

[stickboy1375]

Why have codes if your just going to pick the ones that suit you...

 

[George Stolz]

Because nobody in my area does it - why make waves if it results in an equally safe installation?

(As I run and duck for cover behind the tower of hypocrisy built by my own two hands...)

Seriously, though, I don't think many people in my area are even aware that code exists, it does not get cited.

 

[stickboy1375]

Because nobody in my area does it - why make waves if it results in an equally safe installation?

(As I run and duck for cover behind the tower of hypocrisy built by my own two hands...)

Seriously, though, I don't think many people in my area are even aware that code exists, it does not get cited.

So do they staple wires running parallel with the framing?

 

[stickboy1375]

Because nobody in my area does it - why make waves if it results in an equally safe installation?

(As I run and duck for cover behind the tower of hypocrisy built by my own two hands...)

Seriously, though, I don't think many people in my area are even aware that code exists, it does not get cited.

Why do you feel its equally safe if its a code violation?

 

[George Stolz]

Stick, if you think of a second question a minute after your first, you can always hit the

button instead.

Why do you feel its equally safe if its a code violation?

Show me a house that's burned because of it. Describe a scenario leading to a shock or fire, that would be prevented by using staples instead of gravity.

So do they staple wires running parallel with the framing?

No, sillly, that's what the drywall is for!

 

[mvannevel]

Show me a house that's burned because of it. Describe a scenario leading to a shock or fire, that would be prevented by using staples instead of gravity.

Just to play the devil's advocate here George, show me a house that's burned (or the shock hazard) where NM is fished vertically in the stud spaces as the code allows. We're probably not going to find one. But, that doesn't give us the ability to run NM parallel with the studs and not secure it. Same goes for NM over the top of joists or the top of the bottom chord of trusses.

If the provisions of 334.23 (referring us to 320.23 for protection of the cables) are followed, then I don't see the idea of cables being stepped on as much of an issue. Actually, to my way of thinking, the more that cable is secured, the less damage will likely occur if the cable is accidentally stepped on or hooked and pulled.

I tend to agree with Bob:

Come on, you don't staple it only because no one is forcing you to and it is faster.

I inspected a house last year about this time with the panel locate in the attached garage. All of the feeds went up and through the attic and out to the service panel. None of them were secured. Talk about a mess of spaghetti. It was such a tangled up mess, there's no way you could move one wire without the entire mess moving along with it. Couldn't hardly have been faster to install them that way. The contractors response to the correction notice was, "They're already supported, why do they need to be stapled. Nobody ever makes us staple them".

 

[macmikeman]

Just to throw in my own 1 cent, I have stapled over the truss on every house I ever wired, (have cheated lots on adding circuits on existing houses thanks to fiberglass insulation). I think it is safer not to staple, but since the code requires it I do it.

 

[tallgirl]

Why do you feel its equally safe if its a code violation?

I think he gave his reasons, and I happen to agree with him -- NM stapled every 4 1/2' has no "give" if tripped over, and if stepped on is at risk of stripping both the sheathing and insulation. I'd wager that more people are injured in falls as a result of stapled Romex than are injured by building fires (or whatever) that are caused by unstapled Romex doing whatever it is that it's supposedly going to do.

Stricter enforcement of the sections relating to protecting the wires from damage (by being stepped on or tripped over) and excluding it from around scuttles would likely reduce the tripping hazard caused by stapling and the arc hazards from being denuded.

Personally, I prefer to run Romex on the sides of joists when running parallel, then well out of the way of accessible storage, before heading off to wherever I need that wire. It takes more time and material, but if the perpendicular runs are out of the way, I see no reason they'd have to be stapled anywhere other than at the start and finish of where they run perpendicular to the framing members. Rather than quoting code sections, I'd like to know what someone thinks is so unsafe about that type of installation.

 

[satnad]

I'll admit it, I don't fasten Romex every 4 1/2' in a attic.
I follow the rules around the scuttle hole, and every where else, I let it lay on the truss chord (or ceiling joist).
IMO, this way the cable is less likely to be damaged if someone steps on it between the joists.
I also don't pull the runs tight between points for the same reason.
I will staple where the cable passes next to a nail plate (intersection) to prevent the cable from being cut if someone steps on it and pulls it tight against the plate.
Why does it need to be secured, other than "the code says so"?
It will probably be buried in insulation and never seen (or touched) again. Plus, if it can move, it's (IMHO) is less likely to be damaged if it's ever "stretched" (stepped on).
Does everyone else (whose willing to admit) staple in the attic?
Just a opinion.
steve

Edited for grammar

In an attic I run my cables only under 3' head sapces and not any higher. Usually they end up run around the perimeter - but never stapled them for the reasons already mentioned.
Further: the overstapling habits of some electricians are obslutely ridiculous. I have seen staples 3" from a hole in a joist or stud. I have seen (once) a fire started because a cable was stapled too tite, (it shorted out - this was a 3 year old home) too sharp of an angle, 2" before entering the drilled hole. In older homes I remove some of those staples. You could see the damage over the years due to stretching (wood members shifting etc.). Also why does most people STRETCH that cable 'nice and straight' I do that only in exposed work. Never had a failed inspection.

 

[allenwayne]

Come on, you don't staple it only because no one is forcing you to and it is faster.

Actually Bob I have had inspectors say they themselves would rather not see NM stapled for the reason I mentioned so your statement is an assumption.

 

[M. D.]

Next time , have one more run to make so when the inspector shows up he can see you fishing the cable over the top I know it is not concealed but it might get a laugh out of the guy.

 

[blue spark]

When I have runs perpendicular to the joists, I keep them in one area together, then slap a 2X on each side laying flat. When a branch leaves the group, I just dive under the 2X and run with the joists. It's a little extra work but I think it's a good method of protection.