romex wire

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Re: romex wire

Originally posted by james wuebker:
What's your thought on this?
Jim
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My thought is that working in or on a live panel is an unsafe work practice and nothing you can do is really safe at that point. De-energize the panel and you don't have to worry about what comes in contact with what. Thats the only safe bet.
 
Re: romex wire

I'm w/gravity here...there is NO good reason a panel - wired in romex, no less - should be entered "hot"...any panel can be shut down, what the owners' may find "inconvenient" pales in comparison to the "inconvenience" a widow/er or child may need to contend with.
 
Re: romex wire

Just curious on how the last couple of people "shut down" a panel. If you are talking about turning off the main breaker in the panel, you still have a couple of live parts with some potential for accidents.

Most jobs I have been too only have a main breaker in the panel............occasionally there is a disconnect on the outside due to distance, etc. Other then an available disconnect outside, how do you shut down a panel (Pull meter, cut wires at top of risers, etc)?

Just curious, not trying to start something here, but usually there isn't a way to shut down a panel with out extraordinary means.
 
Re: romex wire

Originally posted by stud696981:
Just curious, not trying to start something here, but usually there isn't a way to shut down a panel with out extraordinary means.
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I was thinking the same thing. What do you do on a service call when you add a circuit? Call the power company to cut the drop or pull the meter? I think not. Somebody's talking out of their...
 
Re: romex wire

Originally posted by physis:
Boy, it's late in Joisey. Hi celtic. :p
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..too late...was in bed then realized I needed a map of Trenton (about an hours drive away).
 
Re: romex wire

I'm about through. I think I've saved about as much of the world as I can for the day. :D
 
Re: romex wire

Originally posted by physis:
I'm about through. I think I've saved about as much of the world as I can for the day. :D
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superman.gif



...me too...I have a hundred odd some miles to drive tom'row before lunch ~ I might even get to eat for a change...LOL
 
Re: romex wire

Originally posted by mdshunk:
Originally posted by stud696981:
Just curious, not trying to start something here, but usually there isn't a way to shut down a panel with out extraordinary means.
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I was thinking the same thing. What do you do on a service call when you add a circuit? Call the power company to cut the drop or pull the meter? I think not. Somebody's talking out of their...
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I have trouble shot 1000`s of problems in homes and have only requested the poco remove power before the meter when I thought the problem was on the line side of meter only a few times..The debate of working live has come up many times in this forum,to me situations conditions etc, decide if I will work live or kill the circuit.It all comes down to fear or respect for the ole gal.She can bite hard if not careful ;) This is just MHO.I won`t begrudge anyone that insists that the power be off before they start.Simgle phase / 240 I leave it hot.Easier to find open neutrals when a helper cut the neutral tab on a switched recep.,travellers swaped for a 3 wirefan lead etc.
We use a transformer that plugs into 50 a gfci temp.panel and back feeds the home without the gfci tripping,great gadget but if it bites you well you know you got hit really hard :cool: Ohm meters are great but I can find the cause and fix it in 1/2 the time of someone that will not work live.Some times it is safer and easier to shut down in a multi gang metal box once problem is found,but the norm for me is to work it live,just how I was taught and it`s almost 33 years doing it this way.
I always and always will shove the nm in a box mark it if a sp sw leg,3w 4w all others are power in or out.Staple it and then strip it out.
I use a dull razor to score the sheathing then a quick tug is all that is needed this usually leaves 1/4 to 1/2 an inch in the box
 
Re: romex wire

2 fridays ago we got a 911 call from our shop.One of our men was taking the plastic boots off of a panel to add a 3 pole breaker.It was a factory and shutting down is a problem.Well somehow his klines slipt and crossed phases.480 @3,000 amps.He went to hospital and has 3rd degree burns.He should and could have aranged for a shut down.I use to work live often but after hearing of things like this on this forum i limit it to the max.I been wiring for 23 years and want to live to retire in a few more years.I will admit in residential there is not near the hazard on a 120 volt 20 amp line but the danger is still there.
 
Re: romex wire

Originally posted by mdshunk:
Originally posted by stud696981:
Just curious, not trying to start something here, but usually there isn't a way to shut down a panel with out extraordinary means.
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I was thinking the same thing. What do you do on a service call when you add a circuit? Call the power company to cut the drop or pull the meter? I think not. Somebody's talking out of their...
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Something tells me that the 2,000 or so electricians that die or sustain second degree burns each year from exposure to energized equipment had this same attitude. Those of you with this thought process are like drug addicts. You think you can handle it, you think it can't happen to you. You somehow think your smarter than everyone else. Well shame on you.

How do you explain that not a single electrician in the history of the world has ever died from electrocution while the equipment they were working on was denergized and that OSHA documentaion indicates every electrocution of an electrician in the US was avoidable?
 
Re: romex wire

mdshunk
I agree with you. I wanted to see how people take the sheathing off with a hot panel. If the panel is hot or shut down I make a practice of putting in the NM wire through the connector of the panel then taking the sheathing off. I do agree if you can shut down the power it's the best way but most of the time you can't.
Jim
 
Re: romex wire

Just curious on how the last couple of people "shut down" a panel. If you are talking about turning off the main breaker in the panel, you still have a couple of live parts with some potential for accidents.
That is one place where the NEC needs to catch up with the Canadian Electrical Code. Service panels there have an additional cover the protects all of the live parts on the line side of the main breaker. When you shut off the main, and take the normal cover off, you can install breakers and wiring without being exposed to live parts.
Don
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Re: romex wire

Don: I thought there was a proposal for this in an upcoming NEC (although I cannot pinpoint where I saw this). The cover would be a nice thing, but it will take a very long time before any significant percentage of panels have this feature; unless it is required as a retrofit kit to all panels.

All: This is a serious flaw in the way the SYSTEM works. In my juristiction, adding a circuit with the PoCo pulling the meter (they will NOT pull it without an associated permit) requires:

45 min. drive to permit bldg. (no on-line permits)
45 min. in permit line (could be much longer)
45 min. return drive
Arrive at site day of job and wait for PoCo
Do rough wiring (HO without power all day)
Wait for PoCo to reconnect
Call for rough inspection
Return for device installation
Call for final inspection

The bottom line is a 1 hour job takes 1-1/2 to 2 days. HO will NOT pay $600-$800 for a single circuit (nor should they have to).

Just my opinion.

Mark
 
Re: romex wire

This is why simple things like adding a circuit should not require a permit. As Americans, we ought to be outraged that our government (at least in some areas) has gotten this overbearing. I wonder why we tolerate it.
 
Re: romex wire

For adding a NM cable to a panel, I strip the sheathing first and then tape the ground wire with green tape. This saves having a long length of bare copper in a panel. The little bit of open copper on the end of each conductor is not enough to bridge from hot-hot or hot-ground.
 
Re: romex wire

Originally posted by busman:


45 min. drive to permit bldg. (no on-line permits)
45 min. in permit line (could be much longer)
45 min. return drive
Arrive at site day of job and wait for PoCo
Do rough wiring (HO without power all day)
Wait for PoCo to reconnect
Call for rough inspection
Return for device installation
Call for final inspection

The bottom line is a 1 hour job takes 1-1/2 to 2 days. HO will NOT pay $600-$800 for a single circuit (nor should they have to).

Mark
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Lets look at the time line doing it your way:

2 minutes to take off the panel cover.
5 minutes working in the panel energized.
.2 second arc flash for unitentional contact with energized bus.
20 minutes on the ground with second degree burns, a complete loss of hearing, hair burnt off, naked, and one eye with 3 inches of metal stuck in it.
6 weeks in the intensive care unit.
$20,000 to the anesthesiologist.
$15,000 to the skin graft doctor.
$75,000 to the hosipital.
4 months in therapy, oh another $10,000.
6 months out-of work, but you can't go back to your job because your employer was sued to bankruptcy because you blew up his clients equipment room, you only have one eye that works, and 3 fingers on your right hand had to be removed.
Your wife has left you for a man with a full head of hair and for some reason you have never regained your sense of smell.

Its your choice, I'll settle for the horibbly inconvienent day at the building department.
 
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