Running 12/4 to kitchens

Status
Not open for further replies.
electricguy61 said:
Are you installing AFCI’s then GFCI receptacles? I’ll have to do a cost benefit analysis of that. Non-combo AFCI’s are not common in this area to my knowledge, but perhaps I’m just not up to date.
Click to expand...

No longer doing resi work- so I don't know. About 5 years ago when I was leaving it was AFCI breaker then GFCI- but then again combos were a lot more expensive or just didn't exist.
 
JFletcher said:
Never seen 12 / 3 / 3... sounds like an almost custom MC cable for 3-phase applications. Nothing is gained over a full boat application, with the exception that multiple full boats in one cable would only need one ground wire not two or three
Click to expand...

It’s not for 3 phase app but i guess you can use it as that but I don’t know why. And its not a full boat app either. The cables has 3 full circuits with each having its own neutral.
 
electricguy61 said:
I must be missing something: with the requirement for AFCI’s in basically all rooms of a home, how could you use 12/3 from the panel for kitchen circuits?
Click to expand...
There are double pole AFCI's as well - don't know their price tag though.

electricguy61 said:
Are you installing AFCI’s then GFCI receptacles? I’ll have to do a cost benefit analysis of that. Non-combo AFCI’s are not common in this area to my knowledge, but perhaps I’m just not up to date.
Click to expand...
Don't mix up feeder/branch combination AFCI's with dual function AFCI/GFCI.

Feeder/branch combination is all you are going to find in new units, and has been for some time now.

I find the dual function to typically be a little higher in price, but still less then a AFCI plus a GFCI receptacle - so when supplying receptacles that will require both GFCI and AFCI I go with the dual function breaker in most cases.

Though I haven't encountered it yet, if the home run is long enough that you are considering MWBC to save on copper (which was a good idea before AFCI came into the picture) you might want to consider getting a feeder closer to the kitchen somehow just to cut down on capacitive leakage in long runs and lessen nuisance trips from this, plus it may significantly reduce the amount of copper needed anyway, a kitchen typically has several branch circuits.
 
kwired said:
There are double pole AFCI's as well - don't know their price tag though.

Don't mix up feeder/branch combination AFCI's with dual function AFCI/GFCI.

Feeder/branch combination is all you are going to find in new units, and has been for some time now.

I find the dual function to typically be a little higher in price, but still less then a AFCI plus a GFCI receptacle - so when supplying receptacles that will require both GFCI and AFCI I go with the dual function breaker in most cases.

Though I haven't encountered it yet, if the home run is long enough that you are considering MWBC to save on copper (which was a good idea before AFCI came into the picture) you might want to consider getting a feeder closer to the kitchen somehow just to cut down on capacitive leakage in long runs and lessen nuisance trips from this, plus it may significantly reduce the amount of copper needed anyway, a kitchen typically has several branch circuits.
Click to expand...

Your comments were exactly why I questioned 12/3 to a kitchen: doesn’t work without a non standard breaker.

And of course, don’t get me started on the ridiculousness of AFCI’s in general. :rant:

But we’re stuck with them:ashamed1:
 
electricguy61 said:
Your comments were exactly why I questioned 12/3 to a kitchen: doesn’t work without a non standard breaker.
Click to expand...

GE's AFCI's are a standard breaker and will work - you will need a handle tie.

2 pole AFCI's I think would still be considered a standard breaker, one might call them rare though.
 
electricguy61 said:
Your comments were exactly why I questioned 12/3 to a kitchen: doesn’t work without a non standard breaker.

And of course, don’t get me started on the ridiculousness of AFCI’s in general. :rant:

But we’re stuck with them:ashamed1:
Click to expand...


I think we should go back to the 1993 NEC. :thumbsup:
 
LarryFine said:
And Windows 97.
Click to expand...
Actually there was no Windows 97, and in 1993 Windows 3.1 was the latest version, which was still a DOS driven system. Next big step was Windows 95 which got further away from DOS driven and even more user friendly for those that didn't know much about computers.
 
kwired said:
Win 7 wasn't even a gleam in Bill Gate's eyes in 1993;)
Click to expand...

I think he means not what was actually present in 93, but rather regressing to older things. Now, if we compare windows 7 to windows 8, I think everyone and everyone would go for 7. I tried 8, it was absolutely the most awful :sick:
 
mbrooke said:
I think he means not what was actually present in 93, but rather regressing to older things. Now, if we compare windows 7 to windows 8, I think everyone and everyone would go for 7. I tried 8, it was absolutely the most awful :sick:
Click to expand...
Well then why not go back to XP? I think it was more liked then any other Window's version.
 
i'm up to windows 10, thankfully I've people around me that know something about it, i haven't a clue....:( ~RJ~
 
romex jockey said:
i'm up to windows 10, thankfully I've people around me that know something about it, i haven't a clue....:( ~RJ~
Click to expand...

Oh, yahhh, it spies on you. Microsoft gets my engineering and intellectual property for free. I bet my substation designs will magically start popping up at their data centers if they already haven't.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top