Running 12/4 to kitchens

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Dennis Alwon said:
How much time does it save? We run 2 runs at a time, especially in the kitchen. 12/2/2 needs a large jb when you have 2- 12/2 cables also. I would never have a blank plate showing and I don't like the idea of a jb in the crawl in a new home,
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Although uncommon, I've used blank plates before on deleted boxes. Some homeowners would rather you install a $0.40 plate in 1 minute than to tear the box out of the wall, patch the wall, and repaint the wall.

Then again, there are people who will pay hundreds if not thousands extra to have screwless faceplates installed everywhere so they don't have to look at device and cover plate screws.
 
I just looked up the price differnect at one of my suppliers. (1) roll of 12/2/2 in $9 more than (2) rolls of 12/2.

HD must not get good pricing or makes $$ profit on the 12/2/2. Anytime I have compared pricing in the past they are $30-$40 more a roll more than my suppliers.

12/2/2 is more expensive to purchase than 12-2 but for long runs we find the labor savings worth it if you have a good place to land it. We tend to use a lot of 4SQ deep boxes anyway so its usually not a problem.
 
GeorgeB said:
Just out or curiosity, I went to the online orange big box ... Easter Sunday;

not the quantities you requested however, full rolls

250' of 12-2, $70.97
250' of 12-2-2, $206.18
250' of 12-3, $136.33
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Price per foot goes up if 25, 50 or 100 foot coils are an available option. If you only need 50 feet but buy 250 feet you still spent a fair amount that you didn't need to. Though if you are in this business and do plan to use it soon on another job it may still be worth it.
 
curt swartz said:
HD must not get good pricing or makes $$ profit on the 12/2/2. Anytime I have compared pricing in the past they are $30-$40 more a roll more than my suppliers.
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Not purchased or sold in as high of volume. They possibly don't have the greatest prices compared to your supply house on things like 8-2, or 6-2 either.
 
JFletcher said:
Although uncommon, I've used blank plates before on deleted boxes. Some homeowners would rather you install a $0.40 plate in 1 minute than to tear the box out of the wall, patch the wall, and repaint the wall.

Then again, there are people who will pay hundreds if not thousands extra to have screwless faceplates installed everywhere so they don't have to look at device and cover plate screws.
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To blank off something that was already there is one thing, but many won't want that cover on the ceiling if not too much trouble when first finishing that basement. At very least try to locate it in a spot that may be more inconspicuous should the area ever get finished.
 
Why a separate JB at all? Just run the 12/2/2 to the first receptacle and branch from there. I suspect you don't want to do that because you use plastic boxes and this would exceed the fill. If you use a steel 4-11/16 deep with NM connectors and a raised ring you could park your truck in there.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
Why a separate JB at all? Just run the 12/2/2 to the first receptacle and branch from there. I suspect you don't want to do that because you use plastic boxes and this would exceed the fill. If you use a steel 4-11/16 deep with NM connectors and a raised ring you could park your truck in there.

-Hal
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Don't even need to go with the 4-11/16 steel box, just a plastic or fiberglass 4x4x(~2) and a non metallic mud ring.
 
I guess it all depends on your labor rate. The 12/2/2 is quite expensive but that additional cost could easily be negated with labor savings.
 
curt swartz said:
I just looked up the price differnect at one of my suppliers. (1) roll of 12/2/2 in $9 more than (2) rolls of 12/2.

HD must not get good pricing or makes $$ profit on the 12/2/2. Anytime I have compared pricing in the past they are $30-$40 more a roll more than my suppliers.

12/2/2 is more expensive to purchase than 12-2 but for long runs we find the labor savings worth it if you have a good place to land it. We tend to use a lot of 4SQ deep boxes anyway so its usually not a problem.
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4 11/16’s squares works fine
 
JFletcher said:
Never seen 12 / 3 / 3... sounds like an almost custom MC cable for 3-phase applications. Nothing is gained over a full boat application, with the exception that multiple full boats in one cable would only need one ground wire not two or three
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romex jockey said:
they make 12-3-3 now?


~RJ~
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This:

https://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet481

And this:

https://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet707

Common in some areas none existent in others.
 
De-rating 12/3/3

De-rating 12/3/3

With this type of cable you would have to de-rate the ampacities due to current carrying conductors in a cable?
 
Shortcircuit79 said:
With this type of cable you would have to de-rate the ampacities due to current carrying conductors in a cable?
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yes, but with NM-B you adjust starting with 90C ampacity so up to 9 CCC still leaves you with 21 ampacity on 12 AWG. You would need to pay attention to bundling with other cables and causing further adjustments to apply though.
 
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