Running conduit outside of a house, how to come into a box?

Status
Not open for further replies.

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
Not that I recommend it but...



...but then the question of whether the AHJ will consider any part as subject to damage and require it be protected with conduit.

Not many homeowners would be happy with running a bare grey cable up the wall, across siding. Staples make it look even worse. A run of conduit can look neat and give a professional looking job. Bare cable under a soffit, along molding, etc. would not be quite as bad.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Not many homeowners would be happy with running a bare grey cable up the wall, across siding. Staples make it look even worse. A run of conduit can look neat and give a professional looking job. Bare cable under a soffit, along molding, etc. would not be quite as bad.
I wasn't saying eliminate the conduit entirely, just the portion that goes into the wall and the box or LB at the top.
 
LeRoy

LeRoy

I agree with Smart. Why would you want to connect the pvs to the box. Drill a hole below the box in the same cavity and reach in and grab the UF and install it in an old work box.

Your original plan sounded good to me. It is my goto plan A when I need to reach a box on the other side of the wall. Although I too would probably use UF, I don't see why even standard romex would be a problem. It is protected and inaccessible. I also don't see why you would have to use a metal box if it is not going to be directly connected to the conduit run. I use a close nipple with a rigid coupling and a chase nipple. Secure with some liquid nail, a little caulking to make it look nice.... Good to go! I also seal the nipple with some fire caulk, more to keep the critters out than anything else but I've never had a problem with inspections.

Keep in mind I am a hack and Arizona is not known for its stringent code enforcement.
 

jumper

Senior Member
Your original plan sounded good to me. It is my goto plan A when I need to reach a box on the other side of the wall. Although I too would probably use UF, I don't see why even standard romex would be a problem. It is protected and inaccessible. I also don't see why you would have to use a metal box if it is not going to be directly connected to the conduit run. I use a close nipple with a rigid coupling and a chase nipple. Secure with some liquid nail, a little caulking to make it look nice.... Good to go! I also seal the nipple with some fire caulk, more to keep the critters out than anything else but I've never had a problem with inspections.

Keep in mind I am a hack and Arizona is not known for its stringent code enforcement.

NM-B is not allowed in wet locations and conduit on the exterior wall would be a wet location.
 

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
I wasn't saying eliminate the conduit entirely, just the portion that goes into the wall and the box or LB at the top.

I would still use a box or LB and then free cable into your outlet box. Seal well with silicone caulk. Seal anwhere you screw in straps as well. Water will find its way in otherwise.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
I would still use a box or LB and then free cable into your outlet box. Seal well with silicone caulk. Seal anwhere you screw in straps as well. Water will find its way in otherwise.
We are all entitled to our opinions :happyyes:
 
LeRoy

LeRoy

NM-B is not allowed in wet locations and conduit on the exterior wall would be a wet location.

I am sorry but I am unable to find anyplace that states conductors installed within exterior surface mounted EMT should be considered as installation in a "wet" area.

Article 358.10 Uses permitted:

Sub (A) Exposed and Concealed.
"The use of EMT shall be permitted for both exposed and concealed work."

Sub (C) Wet Locations.
"All supports, bolts, straps, screws, and so forth shall be of corrosion resistant materials or protected against corrosion by corrosion-resistant materials."

Article 358.42 Couplings and Connectors.

"Couplings and connectors used with EMT shall be made up tight. Where buried in masonry or concrete, they shall be concretetight type. Where installed in wet locations, they shall comply with 314.15."

314.15 Damp or Wet Locations.

"In damp or wet locations, boxes, conduit bodies, and fittings shall be placed or equipped so as to prevent moisture from entering or accumulating within the box, conduit body, or fitting. Boxes, conduit bodies, and fittings installed in wet locations shall be listed for use in wet locations."


334.15 Exposed Work.

In exposed work, except as provided in 300.11(A), cable shall be installed as specified in 334.15(A) through (C).

Sub (B) Protection from Physical Damage.
"Cable shall be protected from physical damage where necessary by rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC conduit, Type RTRC marked with the suffix -XW, or other approved means. Where passing through a floor, the cable shall be enclosed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC conduit, Type RTRC marked with the suffix -XW, or other approved means extending at least 150 mm (6 in.) above the floor."



This is all that I can find within the 300. section, if this is the case i need to know because like I said this is my SOP for situations like this. My only concern was that code states conduit runs need to be continuous from point to point unless considered a chase which I do when it is encasing a cable. I think there are some length restrictions involved but how far would you want to pull romex anyways?

Thanks for the tip its so hard to decipher the NEC, seems one place says O.K. and the next prohibits it.
 
Last edited:

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
I am sorry but I am unable to find anyplace that states conductors installed within exterior surface mounted EMT should be considered as installation in a "wet" area. ...
Start at...
300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Abovegrade. Where
raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the interior
of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet location.
Insulated conductors and cables installed in raceways in wet
locations abovegrade shall comply with 310.10(C).
 

hurk27

Senior Member
I just cut in the gem box line up a long ?" bit and drill a pilot hole, or using a long ?" bit in the hole saw and just drill it out from the inside, then put a EMT connector and a short piece of EMT in the back of the box then go out side and using my cordless sawzall cut it at the length needed remove the burs, install the LB and pipe from there, but since the owner didn't like the idea of opening the walls on the inside, I would make sure he was ok on the idea of running pipe on the outside? I know many do not like things running on the outside of there house, other options are finding a chase from the basement to the attic above the second floor then using fish sticks (?" fiber glass semi-ridged rods to fish in wire with) to pull your cable up to the attic then fish them back down into the wall from the attic, not always possible with outside walls but if you can get them down into a inside wall then remove the base board and put a mouse hole that the baseboard will cover and notch around the room to the place you need the receptacle with another mouse hole, then use narrow nail plates to protect the cable, reinstall the baseboard.

I did a few rewires like this for the National Park service on some historic homes that we were not allowed to damage the inside walls or the outside walls, we had to remove and re-fed all the old K/T wiring with all 20 amp rated circuits, and two of these homes were three story, I had enough fish sticks and flex bits and extensions to reach from the basement to the attic above the third story, but making over $50k+ for each one was worth it, just a pain to do.
 
LeRoy

LeRoy

Start at...

Well thank you both, I like to say if I don't learn something new each day that day was wasted, and you saved this one.

Like I said I use type UF for my installations so I should be O.K?

What do you all think about defining this type of installation as a sleave vs a raceway, in regards to exception#1 of 300.10?
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
What do you all think about defining this type of installation as a sleave vs a raceway, in regards to exception#1 of 300.10?

The exception only refers to the continuity requirement, so not applicable.
If you call a piece of PVC that is not a listed raceway component a sleeve rather than a raceway, you may get around the requirement, but the point that the environment will naturally make it a wet area should still be a design factor.
 

James S.

Senior Member
Location
Mesa, Arizona
The exception only refers to the continuity requirement, so not applicable.
If you call a piece of PVC that is not a listed raceway component a sleeve rather than a raceway, you may get around the requirement, but the point that the environment will naturally make it a wet area should still be a design factor.

LeRoy's environment would be the middle of the freaking desert. Even our rivers aren't wet locations. :happyyes:




Seriously, there isn't water in 90% of the rivers here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top